Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Problems relating to pH and total alkalinity.
Increase ph, increase TA. Reduce pH, reduce TA.
pH chemistry advice and techniques for the pool.
diddlyD

Re: Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Postby diddlyD » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 18:52

Mr. DARTH DOUGY, I was ever so pleased to find your well detailed explanation on this subject mainly as it pertains on how to effectively lower PH "without" lowering TA that otherwise would utimatley results in a YoYo cycle effect that's senceless. I can attest to the fact that "Dry Acid" did not lower my TA only my PH and I was done. in fact, my TA actually had a very slight rise 10ppm. My PH has remained stable since for several days now. :) I would not recommend using Muriatic Acid as the ideal way to lower PH alone. Although Dry Acid costs more than Muriatic Acid you won't spend as much on chemicals in the long run as you won't endure the lowered TA and ultimately spike in PH again and have to add more chemicals on this endless cycle. IMHO, focus on keeping PH balanced as the priority and then TA should be easier to maintain.


diddlyD

Re: Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Postby diddlyD » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 19:44

diddlyD wrote:Mr. DARTH DOUGY, I was ever so pleased to find your well detailed explanation on this subject mainly as it pertains on how to effectively lower PH "without" lowering TA that otherwise would utimatley results in a YoYo cycle effect that's senceless. I can attest to the fact that "Dry Acid" did not lower my TA only my PH and I was done. in fact, my TA actually had a very slight rise 10ppm. My PH has remained stable since for several days now. :) I would not recommend using Muriatic Acid as the ideal way to lower PH alone. Although Dry Acid costs more than Muriatic Acid you won't spend as much on chemicals in the long run as you won't endure the lowered TA and ultimately spike in PH again and have to add more chemicals on this endless cycle. IMHO, focus on keeping PH balanced as the priority and then TA should be easier to maintain.


I would like to make a final comment: Although my experience started with my TA on the very low end of the scale at 70ppm while my PH was too high, after adding Dry Acid it resulted in a slight "increase" to my TA now at 80ppm, which was fine; on the other hand, someone else has reported their experience with Dry Acid to lower their PH also lowered their TA "BUT" the difference was their TA started out on the other extreme with very high TA. So in conclusion, I believe TA is self adjusting in response to the PH changing not directly due to direct effect from the Dry Acid, so if the TA on the high side prior to adding acid it can be lowered and just the opposite can see an increase in TA.
Denniswiseman
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Re: Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Postby Denniswiseman » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 17:39

Use these chemicals to balance your water
Liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite or plain bleach)
Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to lower pH and TA
Bicarbonate of soda to raise TA
Aeration will raise pH only
Soda ash will raise pH and TA

This is proven and used by thousands of pool users check out www.troublefreepool.com
DittlyD
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My Pool: My pool is in AZ, 10,500 gal plaster play pool with cartridge filter, VS pump, off-line Liquid Chlorine feeder, auto vac sys., use Chemical test kit, dry acid for ph control.

Re: Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Postby DittlyD » Sun 08 Oct, 2017 21:23

I read the above posts and don't have that same experience at all with using dry acid to the most part. The dry acid (PH down) I use is also 95% sodium Bisulfate. My TA does not or barely moves when adding "dry" acid to lower PH from 8 to 7.6 or 7.4 which usually takes about 1 1/2 cups according to the Taylor test kit Reference Manual (I highly recommend using). Today for example, PH was 7.8 not quite 8 and I added enough acid to bring it down to 7.4....TA did not change at all, still at 80. But when my PH got real high 8+ one time, I did see a rise in TA to about 90-100 and it did adjust down with the PH but I also added a lot more Acid to get the PH down to 7.4 that time. So maybe the difference here is how high the PH has to get to effect TA changes up and down when using higher doses of dry acid required to adjust the high PH down.

I just sprinkle the acid into circulating pool water a little at a time that's it (wearing protective gear of course) dissolves immediately. I use liquid chlorine in a feeder that dispenses into the pool water based on the pump running at night and adjusting PH "down" goes hand in hand with using liquid chlorine as the sanitizer; SWG I hear are even worse when it comes to high PH issues. So now what I'm hearing here is if my TA were higher than it is, my ph might be more stable, but I'm not sure what "stable" exactly means, a day; a week or never having to adjust the PH again? Maybe I already have stable. I thought I read somewhere that keeping TA on the low side stabilizes PH better. I do realize TA is a buffer to PH but is it better lower or higher; I'm at the low end of the OK range with 80 right now (I read getting it down to even 70 would be better for PH stabilization).

I'm currently adding PH down once to twice a week depending on when I add fill water (aeration). I see to many minuses for using Muriatic Acid mainly because it has very caustic fumes which most people pour right into the pool water that is so strong if not careful can stain the pool plaster (I don't have a diving pool with 12 ft deep areas) along with the instability of both PH and TA to save a perceived dollar doesn't pass the test for me. I also have not had to add any shock treatments but my water is not exposed to high levels of contaminates either. I hope another posted view is well excepted!
Denniswiseman
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Posts: 720
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Muriatic Acid versus granular acid

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 02:27

If you are currently reducing your pH up to twice a week then you may be aerating your pool water (fountain, infinity edge, waterfall or other aeration) Failing that your TA is to high, keep reducing it untill your pH stabilises
Each pool is different and the recommended levels suggested by the industry aren't always relevant to individual pools
Such as Chlorine / CYA Chart when the industry standard is 2-3ppm

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