Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Problems relating to pH and total alkalinity.
Increase ph, increase TA. Reduce pH, reduce TA.
pH chemistry advice and techniques for the pool.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sat 23 Oct, 2021 04:08

Sorry for more in my series of newbie questions....

If my pool app says add 150 gms, does it refer to dense or light soda ash? I used the search box on the forum but didn't find any reference to 'soda ash light'. Is it just assumed that it is the light type, which I read is used in water treatment?

Also if I want to aerate my pool chem-free but don't have the option to add a permanent fountain and need all my jets to make the water reach the long horizon edge opposite, how often and for how long would I need to use a portable aerator pump to raise pH by say 0.2?

What power would it need to be and are they very expensive (I guess one for a garden fish pond won't be adequate)? Submersible would be my first preference as the pool is in a prominent position always on view.

The pool is 54,000 litres (12,000 Imp. gallons). I hope this isn't a 'how long is a piece of string?' type question.

Thanks if you can put me straight on both of these questions. :D


Teapot1
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Posts: 172
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Teapot1 » Sat 23 Oct, 2021 05:47

Never heard of soda ash light? Bud light yes.
How quickly the pH will rise depends on how much aeration and the level of TA in the water. I have used a shop vac to aerate in the past but that makes very large bubbles and smaller bubbles are better. Then I modified a submersible pump which does a much better job.

https://youtu.be/3Cj4-6nhNH4

You can also do it with a piece of pipe out of the returns but takes longer. Just make sure the water splashes back into the pool.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2219
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Denniswiseman » Sat 23 Oct, 2021 08:14

I use this, it gives me 6,000 litres per hour with 4 airstones on it
https://www.swelluk.com/velda-silenta-air/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI046x68zg8wIVD-rtCh37MgHnEAQYASABEgIaEfD_BwE
I would have thought that the infinity edge would be causing your pH to rise anyway
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sat 23 Oct, 2021 21:38

[quote="Teapot1"]Never heard of soda ash light? Bud light yes.

:D

After a good time yesterday searching, today I actually just stumbled on this web page, I see that soda ash light is the product we use for pool chemistry:
https://www.entrepreneurindia.co/blog-d ... +ash+dense)+production

It is advertised on web sales sites as just soda ash, or soda ash light, that was why I was confused:
https://www.google.com/search?q=soda+as ... 67&dpr=2.5

:mrgreen:
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sat 23 Oct, 2021 21:47

Denniswiseman wrote:I use this, it gives me 6,000 litres per hour with 4 airstones on it
https://www.swelluk.com/velda-silenta-air/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI046x68zg8wIVD-rtCh37MgHnEAQYASABEgIaEfD_BwE
I would have thought that the infinity edge would be causing your pH to rise anyway


Thanks Dennis. Which model do you have? How long would you run it to raise pH by 0.2 for my pool, just a rough guess? Leave it overnight, or a couple of hours, or what? :)

The pool is 10x4m. 4 jets along one 10m side, and the infinity edge is the full length of the other 10m side, so the overspill is just a gentle trickle with very little bubble. Keeps the whole water surface beautifully clean though.
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
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Posts: 172
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 01:35

Need to know the pH and the TA before being able to answer "how quickly"
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2219
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 02:45

Cameljockey wrote:
Denniswiseman wrote:I use this, it gives me 6,000 litres per hour with 4 airstones on it
https://www.swelluk.com/velda-silenta-air/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI046x68zg8wIVD-rtCh37MgHnEAQYASABEgIaEfD_BwE
I would have thought that the infinity edge would be causing your pH to rise anyway


Thanks Dennis. Which model do you have? How long would you run it to raise pH by 0.2 for my pool, just a rough guess? Leave it overnight, or a couple of hours, or what? :)

The pool is 10x4m. 4 jets along one 10m side, and the infinity edge is the full length of the other 10m side, so the overspill is just a gentle trickle with very little bubble. Keeps the whole water surface beautifully clean though.

I have never tested it but .2 is not a lot
If it's low I leave it on overnight
Mine is the 6000 which gives me 6,000 litres per hour of fine bubbles through the 4 airstones in the deep end of 4 metre wide
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 04:47

The higher the TA the quicker it will offgas and raise the pH.
Mine at a TA of 50 I could aerate for days and not see a change in the pH. When it was a TA of 140 it would change in 2 hours.
If the pH is towards the upper end 7.8-8.1 the offgas is slower than at pH7.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 06:46

Teapot1 wrote:The higher the TA the quicker it will offgas and raise the pH.
Mine at a TA of 50 I could aerate for days and not see a change in the pH. When it was a TA of 140 it would change in 2 hours.
If the pH is towards the upper end 7.8-8.1 the offgas is slower than at pH7.


Thanks this is really interesting. TA is 90 and I intend to maintain it there.
pH has been quite steady 7.4 with no intervention from me, but I want 7.5-7.6 and have raised it, currently 7.5.
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2219
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 06:48

To be quiet honest I would leave it where it is
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 06:50

I have never tested it but .2 is not a lot
If it's low I leave it on overnight
Mine is the 6000 which gives me 6,000 litres per hour of fine bubbles through the 4 airstones in the deep end of 4 metre wide


Fantastic, all ultra-helpful. I would only be needing small changes, it's about maintaining stability. Thanks :thumbup:
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 08:34

Cameljockey wrote:
Thanks this is really interesting. TA is 90 and I intend to maintain it there.
pH has been quite steady 7.4 with no intervention from me, but I want 7.5-7.6 and have raised it, currently 7.5.

If it is quite steady, what is your reason for moving it up?
Is it to make the water potentially less aggressive on the langlier saturation index?
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter

No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Cameljockey » Sun 24 Oct, 2021 19:50

Teapot1 wrote:
Cameljockey wrote:
Thanks this is really interesting. TA is 90 and I intend to maintain it there.
pH has been quite steady 7.4 with no intervention from me, but I want 7.5-7.6 and have raised it, currently 7.5.

If it is quite steady, what is your reason for moving it up?
Is it to make the water potentially less aggressive on the langlier saturation index?


My pool robot used to climb walls when my pH was 7.6-7.7, now it doesn't. The manufacturer (Maytronics/Dolphin) says the reason is the low pH.
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2219
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Soda ash or soda ash light? And pump for occasional pool aeration.

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 25 Oct, 2021 02:48

Cameljockey wrote:
Teapot1 wrote:
Cameljockey wrote:
Thanks this is really interesting. TA is 90 and I intend to maintain it there.
pH has been quite steady 7.4 with no intervention from me, but I want 7.5-7.6 and have raised it, currently 7.5.

If it is quite steady, what is your reason for moving it up?
Is it to make the water potentially less aggressive on the langlier saturation index?


My pool robot used to climb walls when my pH was 7.6-7.7, now it doesn't. The manufacturer (Maytronics/Dolphin) says the reason is the low pH.


TBH I think that's rubbish

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