Extremely High Phosphate count

[chem geek]

What brand of phosphate remover did you use? Apparently it did not contain a clarifier. Phosphate removers work by precipitating lanthanum phosphate which would turn your water milky/cloudy unless the product also contained a clarifier. To clear your water, I suggest you get a good clarifier such as GLB Clear Blue. Normally one wouldn't want to use a clarifier, but lanthanum phosphate is very hard to clear out of the water any other way as it doesn't get caught in a filter on its own very quickly except perhaps in DE filters -- what kind of filter do you have (sand, cartridge, DE)?

Also, what kind of shock are you using? Is it Cal-Hypo or is it Dichlor or something else? I'm not sure why you aren't getting any chlorine reading -- a phosphate remover shouldn't change that. If you are using a DPD chlorine test (the kind that turns pink/red and you compare against a standard), then you could have too high a chlorine level that it is bleaching out the test. You can use an inexpensive OTO chlorine test (the kind that turns yellow though with high chlorine can become orange or even red) to verify if you've got chlorine.

In the future, follow the advice from good pool forums and not from pool stores. There was no need for you to reduce your phosphate level and you can prevent algae growth by maintaining a Free Chlorine (FC) level that is at least 7.5% of the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. Read Pool School for more details.

[lbiarch]

I seem to have the same problem as others, I have a SWG and when I get my chlorine level tested at the local pool store my chlorine reading is a .14 and my CY is a 51ppm. (This is a computerized test) I have been running my pool now for about a month. The water is crystal clear. My PH is 7.9. I finally got a phosphate test and I was at 500ppb. He sold me phosphate remover. I added it to the pool and now the water is cloudy. The pool is 30,000 gallons and I added 24oz of phosphate remover based on the instructions, 16 oz per 20,000 gallons of water. The pool store said to watch to see if my chlorine level rises over the next couple of days. After adding the phosphate remover my de filter and pump was being very lathargic. Not much flow, I had to backwash the filter. Is this normal? Should I start to see a chlorine reading now that i killed the phosphates with the remover? (I Hope) Should I shock the pool? I just want the pool to have a chlorine reading and not .14. What else should I do? Will the cloudyness go away on its own. I don't recall if the phosphate remover had a clarifier? The SWG is not producing clorine. The salt content reads 3900ppm. What should I do?

Thank You

Very Frustrated

[lbiarch]

Also I wanted to add that my saltwater generator has been running at 100 percent for the past week with no chlorine results. I did take apart the generator to see if it has scaling on it and it does not. It is only 2 years old. Perfectly clean. I am also getting no code readings, so I am assured it is working fine and that the phosphates were eating the chlorine. Your advice please on the the next steps I should take.

[chem geek]

The filter got clogged because the phosphate remover was precipitating the phosphate in the pool so yes, that's normal and you backwash/clean the filter to remove the phosphate. However, you are still reading low chlorine because there is still algae in the pool and you need to shock with chlorinating liquid or bleach to get rid of it. See Defeating Algae and then after you start getting a chlorine reading read Water Balance for SWGs.

[walton47]

I am a regualar guy with a salt pool. Believe me - high phosphates will cause you problems! Get rid of them! I guess the little phosphate critters prevent the clorine from doing its job. DANGER! I could not figure out how those little phosphate critters kept getting back in my pool. Here is the answer - Most stain removers have phosphate in them. Find some phosphate free stain remover.

[chem geek]

If one properly maintains their Free Chlorine (FC) level relative to the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level and is already ahead of algae growth, then the phosphate level is irrelevant. Unfortunately, the 1-3 ppm FC with 60-80 ppm CYA recommendations from most SWG manufacturers is not sufficient. The FC needs to be at least 5% of the CYA level at all times in an SWG pool.

There are many pools with thousands (some even tens of thousands) ppb of phosphate in the pool and do not get algae nor unusual chlorine demand and the SWG is able to keep up because the proper FC/CYA ratio is maintained. So you need to think of phosphate removers in the same vein as algaecides. They aren't necessary unless you are unwilling to properly maintain the FC/CYA level, but lowering the phosphate level significantly will make the pool less "reactive" so algae will grow much more slowly if the FC/CYA gets too low.

Now if you have a very high phosphate level in an SWG pool and also have a high Calcium Hardness (CH) level, then you can get calcium phosphate scaling in the SWG cell and that can reduce its output. So if one can't get the CH level lowered, then lowering the phosphate level is an option.

[visitor]

Chem geek,
I'm reading you on the fc / cya balance.
However, My Jandy swg flow sensor has gone out 3 times in 7 years. SWG system has never performed properly. Spoke to Jandy/Zodiac Customer service yesterday. They say the high phosphates will ruin their flow sensors & told me I need to get phosphates down to zero to prevent damage before i install another sensor. Have you ever heard of that? Are they making excuses or does their recommendation have merit? I have never checked phosphate level and intend to get some readings.

[chem geek]

Well why don't you try that and let us know if it makes a difference in the life of the flow sensor. Also let us know the phosphate and calcium levels before you use the phosphate remover.

[Anna]

Did you ever get an answer to your high phosphates issue. I also have a customer with SW indoor pool and and can't figure out where the phosphates are coming from. We have tried various removers and the level doesn't budge.

Be interested in finding out how you remedied the situation.

[Blah blah balh]

Check the fill water its there.

[Blah blah blah]

Chemgeek only gives the chemical side of things that should be a fix but never the enviroment that surrounds the pool which can effect the chemicals. Lots of debris around the pool that fall in can throw the chemicals out of wack very fast, dirty filters, pump baskets being full, auto cleaners being jammed, timers not running long enough, gardens by the pool over flowing into the pool, lots of swimmers, dogs swimming in the pool, under sized filters. So not only does the chlorine & conditioner magically control the problem lots of things do but starting with chemical balance is good but not the over all fix as sometimes more than chlorine is needed.

[Ideas?]

I have an endless pool so it is a challenge to vacuum. The phosphates are sitting all over the pool bottom and benches. I have to use a vacuum attached to a hose. The mesh will not collect the phosphate....Without emptying the pool and without adding chemicals is there a way to vacuum it up? Other that that the pool water is crystal clear. Thanks.
Margie

[Addz]

Id floc the pool, twice if ness. The regulary add a Phosphate remover. 250ml a month give or take.

[saltwaterpoolusa]

I have had my salt water pool for 5 years now and our first year we did not remove the phosphates and it was a nightmare with algae and how hard the cell was working. Lowered the phosphates (used Natural Chemistry's PHOSfree, because it didnt cloud or NO vacumming, thank GOD) and ever since that summer our pool has been so much easier to maintain and we save so much money and hours on our cell.

[Chiefsurfer]

Hey guys. Got a question for you. I am having an issue with keeping a free chlorine level. I bought a house with a poorly maintained pool, and have been battling this for 3 years now. I have thrown in over 70 lbs of shock in one week, in a 35,000 gallon pool, to no avail, never getting over 0.1ppm FC level. I have now noticed that my Phosphates are very high, and have been battling algae constantly. I have used about 3 gallons of Phos-Free, and it "seemingly" has not lowered my phosphate levels at all. My current test only goes up to 1,000 PPB. I have found a few different testers that go up to 2,500 ppb, but I have seen here and other places, readings of people getting over 5,000 ppb levels. Can anyone give me advice on what testers are out there that measure a very high level? Given my problems and resistance to ever resolving the issue, I assume the levels are very high. I will add, my well water has levels of phosphate above 1,000 ppb, so that is certainly a source of my phosphate. I don't have an issue with regular maintenance including phosphate removing chemicals, but it would be nice to have a test that would show if I am getting any improvement. Thanks in advance.