Sodium hypochlorite kg to liter

[Denniswiseman]

None of those links worked

I could open them.

That's strange they work now

[Teapot1]

Lets be honest this is a strange site

[Okoth]

These images should work, Dennis.

https://micular.com/images/1.jpg
https://micular.com/images/2.jpg
https://micular.com/images/3.jpg

[Okoth]

Any date on the container of when it was manufactured?

I don't think there was a date on it. They just poured it into smaller containers. And their container was white so I think it's already poured over...

[Okoth]

When was the last time the filter was cleaned?

Every day, also backwashing twice a week and if there is algae twice a day. Also when I shock, I add all the pool cleaning tools inside the water to get a shock as well. I'm using these filter bags

https://micular.com/images/4.jpg

When I shock the pool, wouldn't the filter also be shocked?

Staining usually occurs when the pH gets to 8.1 and above

My pH has never reached 8. The highest was maybe 7.6. When I used copper sulfate before, the pH was nearer to 6.8. But I think it stained because the chlorine level was 2 or above. Got the stains away brushing with chlorine luckily and after that I replaced the water.

Also before I shock the pool, I lower the pH to 6.8 and then shock. My theory is from this table, the lower the pH the more active the chlorine (and faster used as well but I can add it again after raising the pH)

% Active CI pH
97 % 6.0
91 % 6.5
76 % 7.0
66 % 7.2
50 % 7.5
33 % 7.8
24 % 8.0
9 % 8.5

Don't know if it makes sense. Just trying to survive but it looks like the pool is still getting greener.

Is it better to shock with trichlor tonight again? At least I know it reliable. Afterwards I can drain and add water again...

[Okoth]

Welcome to the jungle

[Teapot1]

When was the last time the filter was cleaned?

I'm using these filter bags

https://micular.com/images/4.jpg

Staining usually occurs when the pH gets to 8.1 and above

My pH has never reached 8. The highest was maybe 7.6.

Also before I shock the pool, I lower the pH to 6.8 and then shock. My theory is from this table, the lower the pH the more active the chlorine (and faster used as well but I can add it again after raising the pH)

% Active CI pH
97 % 6.0
91 % 6.5
76 % 7.0
66 % 7.2
50 % 7.5
33 % 7.8
24 % 8.0
9 % 8.5

.

You wont like this but here I go, you are not filtering in the true sense, you are just straining bigger stuff. You will always suffer until you fit a proper filter, preferably with Dr Drydens AFM ng filter media.

Maybe 7.6? Well you just can't tell with your tester as its not accurate enough.

We need accurate test results and for CYA as well.
No I wouldn't add trichlor/dichlor I would stick with liquid and assume its half strength and add double to compensate. Your chlorine chart is for water without CYA stabilser, in the presence of CYA the levels of active hyperchlorous acid are very similar at all relevant pH's in pools.
Also get water tested for phosphates as these are like caffine for algae, dont think because its municipal water that it doesnt have high phosphates.
You should be able to find a phosphate test in an aquarium suppliers as ignorant pool shops wont have them.

[Okoth]

Thank you Teapot. You confirmed my thoughts. I believe these filters are not the best, and as long as you don't really need them, they are fine. But when you need them, they are not enough to filter out the particles.

I have a Blue Lab pH meter. The pH is the only thing I am sure of

I agree that without ways to measure what's happening in the pool, it's almost impossible to keep it crystal clear. I'm wondering why other people manage because they also have only the simple pH and Cl tablets system and TCCA. I'm sure 80% of them use copper sulfate, because that is what the pool guys use here to make their work easier. And as long as the pool is clear, the owners are happy.

I'm convinced that I can get the pool clear with enough trichlor or sodium hypochlorite, but I wonder if I can keep it clear. The coping stone is quite porous and there is algae in the little holes. Maybe I should use bleach mixed with water to spray the stone just above the water to get rid of it. This might cause the algae coming back.

I'm looking forward to go abroad and stock up on pool tests. Will improve my quality of life a lot.

I saw it's possible to buy Dr Drydens AFM ng filter media here, but will I be able to use it with the filtration system I have now? The filter bags.

Your chlorine chart is for water without CYA stabilser, in the presence of CYA the levels of active hyperchlorous acid are very similar at all relevant pH's in pools.

Good to know. I will buy more liquid chlorine today and shock it in the evening again. I'll also buy the phosphate test set today if it's available. But what will I do if there is too much phosphate in the pool? What chemicals lower phosphates? Because I can't get the ready-made products here...

It's so frustrating. I grew up with measuring things if you want to be sure, but here nothing is available. Although you can't help me much without the accurate test results, I'm happy with what you write because it gives me ideas to find a solution with the stuff I can get here.

With the limited choice of chemicals and testing equipment, I feel it's a lot easier to use copper sulfate in my situation. It worked to get rid of algae. I only need to find a way to prevent stains. I understood the stains appear because of a high chlorine level, CYA and high pH level. What if these levels are under control?

Thanks again.

[Teapot1]

Ok, you wont be able to use AFM with the filter bags you would need a sand filter about 600mm dia.
With your current setup even if you kill algae and bacteria you cant filter them out because the bags are not fine enough so the dead stuff goes back into the water to become food for the living stuff, especially algae which contains a lot of phosphate which goes back into the water.

Phosphates are removed using Lanthanum salts if you can get Dryden products the No Phos is the one to go for. Its multi spectrum action is better than the others. It can make the water cloudy for a bit as the phosphates drop out of solution and sink. The TA needs to be 40ppm+ and hardness around 180ppm pH 7 is best.

Copper and CYA, being an acid and a buffer you wont get staining because of CYA. The pH of the chlorine is around 11 so if its not mixed in with the pool water well it can create areas of high pH leading to copper dropping out of solution and staining, likewise if the concentration is too strong. 0.4-0.6 is the prefered level. I used a copper/silver ioniser for many years to test them after so many people (who had never used them) kept running them down. They produce copper ions, I never had straining and the level of active copper never got passed 0.8. The problem potentially is the non active level of the copper builds up over time and when I bought some new reagent to test for total copper, the level was 4.0 and the copper saturated water is bad for the environment. Heaven knows what would have happened if I had let the pH get high! I used the ioniser with peroxomonopersulphate as the oxidiser and had good results from bacterial samples from the laboratory. However after reading what the Australian government said about their slow kill rates and every single system failing the test against chlorine I ran with a low level of chlorine 0.2ppm but then removed it.

[Okoth]

Even if you kill algae and bacteria you cant filter them out because the bags are not fine enough so the dead stuff goes back into the water to become food for the living stuff, especially algae with contains a lot of phosphate which goes back into the water.

Would it be an idea to use poly aluminium chloride from time to time to filter it out?

I'll buy the phosphates test kit today and see what that says first. I saw online RowaPhos Phosphate Remover that I can get, but it's $50 a kilo. Don't know yet how much I need for the pool. But I'll check the phosphate level first.

Wish I had some spare liner to do some copper sulfate tests outside the pool, but I can't get it.

What do you think of this:

Chlorine powder and and chlorine shock is calcium hypochloride Calcium hypochloride produces instantly chlorine gas when it gets into contact with an acid. When dissolved in almost neutral water then it will slowly release chlorine gas into the water.

Chlorine tablets (pucks) are Trichloroisocyanuric acid (known as Trichlor Isocyanuric chloride or Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione, some pucks contain Dichloroisocyanuric). Try to avoid them. Here is why: They produce atomic chlorine and cyanuric acid when dissolved in water. The cyanuric acid is a stabilizer and it stays forever in the water. It can form with copper a dark blue, almost purple powder called copper cyanurate. Copper cyanurate does not dissolve in water and stains your pool. Those pucks take the copper out of the water and stain your pool.

Always use calcium hypochloride powder in combination with copper sulfate algaecide.

Does it make any sense or is it wrong according to you? And how about sodium hypochlorite in combination with copper sulfate?

When are you Aussies going to open up the border with Indonesia again so I can buy some proper testing kits? There is hardly any corona here...

[Teapot1]

Try the local pool shops they often have off cuts or know the liner fitters who you could grab some from.
I did a similar test years ago with liner offcuts and sunscreens after complaints of staining.

What do I think of that statement, if you look at the chlorine pucks (multiaction) both dichlor and trichlor you will see little blue specks in them, thats copper suphate so I do not believe that statement otherwise the copper flecks wouldn't dissolve and would be left behind.
Sodium hypochlorite and copper sulphate is as I described earlier, just risky better to starve the algae.
Incidentally NEVER mix Calhypo with Sodium hypo, that can explode.
Can't help with the border, I am British.

[Okoth]

However after reading what the Australian government said about their slow kill rates

Thought you were Aussie, I am truly sorry to be rude.

Incidentally NEVER mix Calhypo with Sodium hypo, that can explode.

That's a marvelous idea for my son's science project. He loves explosions.

otherwise the copper flecks wouldn't dissolve and would be left behind.

Makes sense.

I didn't have time to go to the aquarium shop, it's still on my list. But the phosphates must be high.

Going to shock the pool now. Bought new sodium hypochlorite 12%. Date was May 11, 2021, probably the date it arrived in the shop. Hope it's 6% otherwise the shock will be really big.

Thanks again.

[Teapot1]

6 months old in a warm climate, yep I would think 6%.

[Brenda]

Chem Geek is a really knowledgable chap and I wouldn't disagree with him at all as he has helped me in the past
I hadn't looked at the origonal and only the standard chart for a slam at 40 CYA
I agree that for mustard algae you need about 24
But guessing and being able to maintain the correct level is difficult without a FAS/DPD test kit as different CYA levels will require different FC levels and most tests don't do high levels of FC

This is why it's better to use liquid chlorine and not Trichlor / Dichlor which adds CYA constantly

Yes, I fully agree Dennis. The thing is, I can't buy a testing set over here and I can't import it because of restrictions. It sucks but that's how it is. So I can only measure the pH and CL with the simple tablets system and look at the color.

I replaced the pool water on 10/10/2021 and counted the trichlor I used and concluded that the CYA must be around 40 ppm. I decided to use sodium hypochlorite from then on. Since I still cannot measure the CYA and we are approaching the rain season it's going to hard to know how much CYA there will be in the pool after some months because we are going to get a lot of rain and water will be drained. I'm planning to start using trichlor again after I see that the chlorine level is gone fast after adding it. Not much more I can do. Great huh?

I hope I can go abroad soon a buy a proper testing set. That will be the best day of my life! It will get rid of lots of stress and gives me my free time back.

[Teapot1]

What happens when you try to purchase from abroad?