How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Total hardness and calcium hardness in pool water.
Scale, calcium buildup, hard water and scaling problems.
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decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby Guest » Fri 14 Nov, 2008 08:06

resonance frequency is right. No scam though. You should try it for yourself and determine your own conclusion. Our test pools have turned from a green mold to clear blue. Pool owners are able to use 50% less chlorine to keep bacteria levels low. The water also feels better on the skin and are not drying out your pours.


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decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby chem geek » Fri 14 Nov, 2008 12:00

Some comments on your company and product may be found here. Vitalized Water Products appears to be rebranded from Nilemark Water Processors. If the product works so well, why not have an independent test lab (with a good reputation) try it out? Why rely on a smattering of testimonials (see here for example, from a related website gfxtechnology(dot)com).

In the FAQ here, you say that VWP "crystallizes the minerals in the water reducing hard water scaling problems". In other words, IF the water is already super-saturated with calcium carbonate, THEN the technology could (I'm not saying it does, but giving you the benefit of the doubt) promote and accelerate crystallization (otherwise known as scaling). If this occurred, then your unit (or the pipes where your unit is attached) would build up scale and would need to be replaced or cleaned often. Where does all of this crystallized (i.e. solid) go? Also note that even causing crystallization will still leave the water near saturation of calcium carbonate -- it could still scale if such water were raised in temperature or pH downstream, such as in a gas heater or an SWG cell in a pool.

By the way, it's not bacteria that consumes chlorine in pools -- even extraordinarily low levels of chlorine will kill most bacteria and prevent uncontrolled growth (unless biofilms have already formed). Higher levels of chlorine relative to the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level are required to prevent algae growth unless a supplemental algaecide (or phosphate remover) is used. Also, most chlorine loss occurs from breakdown from sunlight in residential pools (in commercial pools, it's mostly consumed from the high bather loads).

Richard
vwp

decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby vwp » Mon 24 Nov, 2008 11:23

Actually, the VWP system prevents the hardness PPM from bonding to themselves or anything else. The scale is completely eliminated. A 60 day 100% money back guaranteee should be twice as long as it would take to see great results.
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How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby costasebastian » Fri 13 Mar, 2009 09:55

I also live in Las Vegas. You need a pool expert to go a check your pool. I know these guys are pretty good and they are in Las Vegas

Good luck!
Last edited by Larry on Fri 13 Mar, 2009 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Reduce apparent hardness with magnets

Postby Larry » Fri 13 Mar, 2009 13:02

I know this is anecdotal, but I decided to test out this whole "magnetic field reduces hardness" claim for myself.

I was given a magnet set for the mains water and attached it to the plastic (PPRC) water line where it feeds into my house. I didn't tell my wife or kids that I had done anything. Two or three days later they began telling me that the water filters (I use a 10 micron then a 5 micron filter) were clogged because the water felt soft and "slimy" especially after using soap. Then I was told that the dishwashing detergent was foaming abnormally.

I could feel the difference too, which was quite marked. We began using less soap, detergent, fabric softener, dishwasher salt, etc. I know that the same minerals are in the water, but the water really does "feel" and behave softer.

I got a second magnet and put this on our water heater's closed loop (we have underfloor heating). A week later the heater's grit filter clogged up. I cleaned it out and found clumps of flaky limescale. I cleaned it weekly for 5 weeks, by which time there was very little of the scale getting caught. Our heating bill has gone down compared to previous years.

Do the magnets reduce the hardness? No.
Do they make the calcium less reactive? Yes, I think so.
Do I believe that magnets can successfully be used to reduce the effects of hard water? Definitely!

Larry
Watertreater

How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby Watertreater » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 14:53

One thing I would reccomend is you contact a local water treatment company. I do NOT mean a pool company. Those guys generally dont have a real education. Contact a local water treatment buisness and ask them for a test bottle of polymer. If they ask you what for tell them you want to drop TDS, Hardness, and Unfilterable solids out of solution. Usually a few bucks will get the job done. You will need to mix this solution into a 5 gallon bucket, stir very well, allow to sit for about 15 min, then pour all around your pool. Aggitate yoru pool with a boat paddle or a water hose under water. Do this for about 15 minuites. Walk away for about 30 minuites. Come back and check... if all goes well you should see everything that WAS in solution sitting on the bottom of the pool. At that point you can use an automatic pool cleaner. Adjust pH to 7.0-7.8 and shock the system to a moderate free chlorine level. DO NOT SWIM in the pool for 48 HOURS. Allow all chemical levels to steady, checking your pH and Chlorine levels as often daily as you can. If your FREE Chlorine level keeps dropping you have something alive "alge" that is being burned by the chlorine. Check for nitrites. Usually you can use the same water treatment company you purchased the polymer from to have the tests run for next to nothing. Usually they will not make reccomendations but their products are stronger, cheaper, and they know how to test for them better.

Let me know if you have any questions as I frequent this site.
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Reduce apparent hardness with magnets

Postby chem geek » Thu 09 Apr, 2009 15:32

Larry wrote:I know this is anecdotal, but I decided to test out this whole "magnetic field reduces hardness" claim for myself.
:
:
Do the magnets reduce the hardness? No.
Do they make the calcium less reactive? Yes, I think so.
Do I believe that magnets can successfully be used to reduce the effects of hard water? Definitely!

Larry

Larry,

Can you test the Calcium Hardness (CH) level without the magnets and then repeat the test after the magnets have been in place for a few weeks (or did you already do that)? That would tell you if the calcium was removed (precipitated) or is just being prevented from forming scale. Your description of water filters seeming to get clogged and the heater's grit filter getting clogged up sound like scale is getting precipitated. Knowing the water parameters (especially, pH, TA, CH and temp) of your fill water (i.e. water entering the house) would tell if your water was over-saturated with calcium carbonate to begin with and if the magnets were just causing a condition to accelerate such scale formation so it gets caught in filters. That's what I had said may happen in my earlier post, but that this is only useful to reduce CH down to the level where the water is still saturated with calcium carbonate (which, for pools, isn't bad). This is not what vwp said in this post where the implication is that scale is prevented from forming in the first place and clearly your experience shows that this is simply not true as your filters got clogged with scale (calcium carbonate).

So long as you are bringing in more new water that is high in pH, TA and/or CH (that is, super-saturated in calcium carbonate), then you should continue to see scale form in the filters. Only in a closed recirculating system would you expect to see a lot more scale initially and then none thereafter. You mentioned the water heater closed loop system so what you saw makes sense for that system. The water filters in the house, however, should continue to get clogged so long as you keep bringing in new water into the house (assuming such water is over-saturated with calcium carbonate).

It seems to me that if one were to use this kind of system, one should only do so if 1) the water is over-saturated with calcium carbonate and 2) if one has a filter that can remove the scale that will be precipitated. For a pool with water over-saturated with calcium carbonate, I wonder if just raising the pH to further over-saturate and adding some sort of nucleating particles could be used for the same effect, though one would hope that such scale that would form would do so getting caught in the filter rather than forming on pool surfaces. watertreater notes another similar approach (i.e. forced precipitation) using polymers. Of course, for a house, a water softener (ion exchange resin) can also be used to reduce the calcium directly (in exchange for sodium or potassium).

By the way, the science behind magnetic fields inducing nucleation of calcium carbonate crystals is described in a PDF file (on the other hand, other studies, such as this one showed no difference in scale deposits; by the way, the pseudoscience link I gave in an earlier post more specifically talks about this technology here that science doesn't understand exactly what is going on and the results are inconsistent). This doesn't change the thermodynamics so won't precipitate if the water isn't over-saturated with calcium carbonate to begin with, but that's the situation one wants to eliminate anyway (except, as I noted, scale could still occur in other areas of the system where the temperature is hotter as in a heat exchanger, though at least will scale less than it would if the water were still over-saturated at cooler temps).

Richard
rbame

How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby rbame » Tue 21 Apr, 2009 14:43

You are talking about using the water softener from the house to run the well water through to the pool. I have iron and maganese in the water which turns to a rust color. How can I use the well water and have the pool water looking clear? Any ideas would be very helpful.
Pool User

How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby Pool User » Fri 08 May, 2009 20:02

If the alkalinity is high enough, use limestone (calcium hydroxyde) to precipitate calcium carbonate. Dissolve it in a pail and add it to the water, mix for about an hour (on "recirculate" not "filter"), stop the pump and let it settle to the bottom. Vacuum carefully to waste and rebalance the water.

If alkalinity is low-ish, use pH+ (calcium carbonate), same principle as above.

Third option is to use oxalic acid, again, same principle as above.

Floc might accelerate clearing the pool after treatment. Rebalance the water after treatment.
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How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby chem geek » Fri 08 May, 2009 21:02

rbame wrote:You are talking about using the water softener from the house to run the well water through to the pool. I have iron and maganese in the water which turns to a rust color. How can I use the well water and have the pool water looking clear? Any ideas would be very helpful.

You'd have to add a metal sequestrant to keep the metals in solution and you'd have to add maintenance doses regularly since the sequestrant slowly breaks down from chlorine and also evaporation and refill adds more fill water with these metals into the pool.
Rose

How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby Rose » Mon 01 Jun, 2009 12:36

The water here is so HARD we cant add anything to it accept algacide. When chlorine is added to it, it instantly turns orange !! Once it turned almost black ! We have tried metal-out and all kinds of other products. Nothing seems to work. Id rather have someone come fill it with good water, throw a chlorine floater in there and leave it be. It would then stay clean and clear all summer. I have been trying to find someone who fills pools for a reasonable price but so far no luck. Im in the fresno county area.
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Pool hardness

Postby BobbyJ59 » Wed 11 Aug, 2010 18:38

Cleaburn wrote:I have been told that the water in my pool needs to be changed out every two years to reduce the hardness level. Unfortunately, its a big pool and it seems a huge waste of water to do that (I live in Vegas). The cost to replace my pool water would be about $350? Is there a way to treat my problem without changing it? My pool hardness spiked out the meter (over 2500) and they say 1100 or so is the norm.


I see this is an old post (Tue 02 Sep, 2008 16:36) but thought I would respond anyway...

I live in Las Vegas and have recently bought a house that has a 25,000 gal in-ground pool. I used a service for a few months but was unhappy with it, so I started acquiring the things I needed to do the job myself and reading up on the subject. I purchased a TF-100 test kit and came up with worse numbers than Clearburn...pool water reading 5200 PPM with the calcium hardness test and tap water reading 2500 PPM. I saw chem geek's response so I started scratching my head. I decided to purchase a TDS meter from HM Digital to verify my findings and show chem geek that us guys from Vegas know what we're talking about. I recieved the unit in the mail today and immediately went to test my pool water. It tested at 942 PPM TDS. Hmmmn...so I tested my tap water. It tested at 488 PPM. OK fine. I donned my glasses and re-read the instructions and noticed I was multiplying by the wrong factor of 10, putting my calcium hardness at 520 PPM in my pool and 250 PPM in my tap water. Thank God the numbers in the playing cards are big enough for me to read ...
RickstersPool

How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby RickstersPool » Wed 19 Oct, 2011 17:23

Watertreater wrote:One thing I would reccomend is you contact a local water treatment company. I do NOT mean a pool company. Those guys generally dont have a real education. Contact a local water treatment buisness and ask them for a test bottle of polymer. If they ask you what for tell them you want to drop TDS, Hardness, and Unfilterable solids out of solution. Usually a few bucks will get the job done. You will need to mix this solution into a 5 gallon bucket, stir very well, allow to sit for about 15 min, then pour all around your pool. Aggitate yoru pool with a boat paddle or a water hose under water. Do this for about 15 minuites. Walk away for about 30 minuites. Come back and check... if all goes well you should see everything that WAS in solution sitting on the bottom of the pool. At that point you can use an automatic pool cleaner. Adjust pH to 7.0-7.8 and shock the system to a moderate free chlorine level. DO NOT SWIM in the pool for 48 HOURS. Allow all chemical levels to steady, checking your pH and Chlorine levels as often daily as you can. If your FREE Chlorine level keeps dropping you have something alive "alge" that is being burned by the chlorine. Check for nitrites. Usually you can use the same water treatment company you purchased the polymer from to have the tests run for next to nothing. Usually they will not make reccomendations but their products are stronger, cheaper, and they know how to test for them better.

Let me know if you have any questions as I frequent this site.


Does anyone know what "polymer" he's talking about?
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Re: How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby swimmerforlife » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 18:14

RickstersPool, from what I've researched, the polymer he's referring to can be found here:
http://www.machemicals.com/ProductDetai ... AiL78P8HAQ
The supplier's description is as follows:
Total Solutions Settling Agent Concentrate is a cationic polymer flocculent formulated for easy clarification of waste water in industrial waste streams and municipal waste water treatment facilities. It uses high molecular weight polymers for the rapid settling of solids and suspended debris, which in turn helps to increase the capacity of waste handling systems. Best of all, it is non-toxic and will not harm fish or wildlife when used as directed. For use on; primary and secondary clarifiers, settling ponds, basins and reservoirs.
I have a D.E. filter, and, from what I've read flocculents can supposedly clump up in the filter. I'm going to try this anyway. If I have to clean the hell out of my filter, that's fine. My water is waaaaaaaay too hard. Part of this is because of where I live, and part of it is because I've never drained the pool. Pool cleaners recommend draining and refilling every 2-3 years, but it always seemed like such a waste and I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm looking forward to trying this solution, sucking up all the fallen debris from the bottom and testing the water's new PPM to see what impact it has.
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Re: How do I decrease water hardness levels in my pool

Postby azulverde » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 00:34

Clean your pool. Before you begin your tests, go ahead and clean your pool thoroughly to remove any contaminants from it.

Balance your water chemistry. Before you tackle the hardness of your water, you must first bring the pH and Alkaline levels into proper balance as the chemicals you use to balance these levels can affect your calcium hardness.

If your water hardness level is above 400 ppm, you will need to lower the calcium hardness level, if it is below 150 ppm, you will need to raise it.

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