Pool walls brownish orange all over?

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Sun 01 Aug, 2010 08:34

Pool walls brown orange color?
Newbie here so this is it i have pool one year old and i have been fighting these stains below
the water line for three months.The only thing that will remove them is Pool stain treat or
jacks magic product.They come back everytime then i noticed a few days ago that my ic 20 swg
is runing directly into pool heater then out to the pool.I called rheem and they said thats wrong
and so did Pentair,but the heater is made mostly of titanium.Heater manufacture still said
it could be a problem with a couple of parts not titanium,and there is some copper tubing
i see also.So i called pool installer he of course dont see how it will make any diffirence at all
the way he did it was a quicker job.My pool water test is dead on except fc my 1c 20 is keeping
up cya is 30 to 50 range.Any ideas on these stains?

Postby **floridapooltech** » Mon 09 Aug, 2010 01:33

What you have is the salt generating chlorine which is being pushed concentrated through the thin copper pipes in your expensive pool heater. As this concentrated chlorine is pushed through the pipes, it is breaking down the composition sending the copper filled water into your pool. If you have some sort of proof your installer did the work which i'm sure you have, I would be filing a claim, having someone or him move your salt cell to the last stop before the returns of the pool after ALL other equipment (just like what's in the instructions), then also billing him for all the necessary repairs to your heater since he decided to do a "quicker" job. Sometimes, the slower job is the right job.

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 10:39

Well he did fix it but I wonder if it eventually clear it up also would copper stains be this color.I. Really am at a loss with this since May get rid of the stains back again in a week or less.I have used five bottles if sequester should it be keeping metals from coming out of sequester.cya 50 Fc 3 ph 7.2 Akly 120 show no metals at all yet absorbic acid is only thing that removes it

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 10:45

kturner wrote:Well he did fix it but I wonder if it eventually clear it up also would copper stains be this color.I. Really am at a loss with this since May get rid of the stains back again in a week or less.I have used five bottles if sequester should it be keeping metals from coming out of sequester.cya 50 Fc 3 ph 7.2 Akly 120 show no metals at all yet absorbic acid is only thing that removes it

Your pool is in perfect balance! Basically, you can remove the stains, yet they come back in less than a week in the same locations?

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 13:20

Yes walls steps

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 13:27

I know this isn't what you would want to hear...but the contractor you had do this install screwed up the heater coils and this is why the copper keeps coming back into the pool. A sequestering agent will clear it up, however, since the coils are so badly damaged, the copper will just constantly return into the pool until their is nothing left of the coils. My recommendation is you call the contractor and he needs to bring you a completely NEW heater to replace the one he damaged due to his negligent, and faulty install.

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 14:38

I thought copper stains were purple or greenish color? The heater still looks perfect on inside and the exchanger is made of titanium could to much salt cause a problem?idk maybe I am being too *spamm* about it but 35,000 is a lot of money to have stains.

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 14:51

kturner wrote:I thought copper stains were purple or greenish color? The heater still looks perfect on inside and the exchanger is made of titanium could to much salt cause a problem?idk maybe I am being too *spamm* about it but 35,000 is a lot of money to have stains.

A few questions to diagnose this accurately...How big are the stains? Are you using city or well water? What are the results from a metal test at the local pool store, and also what is your TDS?

Also, copper stains can be purplish in color, however they can show up brown too (darker).

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 15:08

The water is city the stains they cover the entire walls they are not spots and I noticed today. Its mainly the side of the water flow.The other side actually looks good and my metal test showed zero both times and TDS was in Ok range but dent remember the number.Right now they look like a light tea color the would stain a white cup.They have been darker than this and I guess could get darker over time.I done a Super stain treat by United Chemical 10 days ago

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 15:19

kturner wrote:The water is city the stains they cover the entire walls they are not spots and I noticed today. Its mainly the side of the water flow.The other side actually looks good and my metal test showed zero both times and TDS was in Ok range but dent remember the number.Right now they look like a light tea color the would stain a white cup.They have been darker than this and I guess could get darker over time.I done a Super stain treat by United Chemical 10 days ago

I would say to test for phosphates as they can cause staining, however, you said it's only on the wall where the jet's are pointed at telling me one of two things:

1: The heater is bad and metals are collecting on that entire surface including the steps
OR
2: The pool finish is bad

Both of which, the builder will have to come out and fix since your entire pool is still under his warranty.

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 15:34

There is a way of finding out if your heater is the problem. You will have to follow these steps carefully and accurately:

1. Shut your entire system down for a few hours.

2. With your heater on (max heat will be best), turn the system ON.

3. After 30 seconds, capture a water sample DIRECTLY from the jets and have the pool store test THAT sample for metals.

If there is a problem with your heater, the metal test will be high!

Also, sequestering agents only soften the metals up so the chemicals can pick up the stains, however, as soon as the sequester fades out, it hardens and the surface sucks it back in like a sponge!

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 16:13

The finish I believe is fine not so sure about heater my wife sent a email to Royal Fiberglass Pools. About the pool the builder is worthless. So I did call Rheem the heater manf they said they didn't think that the heater would be damaged .However they said that it could hurt it so who do I go to about the heater the builder will do nothing I'm sure .

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 16:24

kturner wrote:The finish I believe is fine not so sure about heater my wife sent a email to Royal Fiberglass Pools. About the pool the builder is worthless. So I did call Rheem the heater manf they said they didn't think that the heater would be damaged .However they said that it could hurt it so who do I go to about the heater the builder will do nothing I'm sure .

I would still run the test and have it sampled from the pool store for metals. I did not know it was a fiberglass pool so the finish would not be an issue. If something is wrong with either the pool or the heater, the first route is to try and remedy the issue with the builder. If he refuses to help, you will have several avenues to go.

Contact:
1. Attorney General
2. BBB
3. Consumer Affairs
4. Angies List
5. Royal Fiberglass Pools, inc.
6. Civil Court

I strongly believe the issue lays in the pool heater as the salt cell was installed on the wrong side of the equipment which is very specific due to the damage it WILL cause. Being your issue is only on the side the returns are pointed to, it tells me there is a foreign substance being introduced into the water. While it may not necessarily be copper, any metals in that heater can be breaking down inside which will cause the staining you are experiencing. The only way to find out is to perform that test yourself and go off those results so you have a strong ground to stand on in the dispute. Should you have any questions, you can contact us at any time as we can walk you through the troubleshooting process.

kturner · Postby **kturner** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 19:50

never thought of that any ideas on a good way to capture the water from the jets?

Postby **floridapooltech** » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 19:53

kturner wrote:never thought of that any ideas on a good way to capture the water from the jets?

basically, after you turn the system on, you are going to need to cover a bottle with your hand, after it is in front of the flow, remove your hand then put the cap on the bottle. make sure when you perform this test to have it tested within a few hours to receive the most accuracy!