Calcium Hardness Plus

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Sun 08 Jun, 2014 19:02

We have a 2 year old salt water pool. We've had lots of leaves and seeds pods, pollen get into the pool this spring, from the above normal temps I assume. Anyway, I had the water tested at Leslie's. It needed most of the usual stuff - salt and conditioner. The Leslie's tester also said that it was low on calcium hardness and needed Hardness Plus. Never before in the all years did we have to add that. Does this seem legit? Just wanted to check before I dump a whole lot of the stuff in my pool.

Right now the pool seems to be real cloudy.

Thanks.

Postby **chem geek** » Sun 08 Jun, 2014 19:50

If you have a vinyl pool, then you don't need the Calcium Hardness (CH). If you have a plaster pool, then you need enough CH so that in combination with pH, TA, CYA, salt level, and temperature the Calcite Saturation Index is near zero, though with a saltwater chlorine generator pool you usually keep the CSI slightly negative to help prevent scaling in the generator cell.

If your water is cloudy then it may be due to algae growth. Your Free Chlorine (FC) level should not get below 5% of the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level in order to prevent green and black algae growth. You may need to SLAM your pool if the cloudiness is from algae.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Sun 08 Jun, 2014 20:08

Okay , I do have a above ground pool , vinyl liner.
The guy at Leslie knew that too. He also said I had plenty of chlotine in it.

Here are his results on the water test.

Free available Chlorine High 5
Total Available Chlorine High 5
Salt High 3900
Calcium Hardness Low 70
Cyanric Acid Low 35
Total Akalinity Low 70
PH Ok 7.6
Copper Ok Zero
Iron OK Zero
Phosphates High 150
Temperture Ok 70

So far today I just put in 5lbs of Alklinity Up

13,000 gallon pool

What do you suggest my next action is? I was looking at buying some plain Calcium Chloride at Walmart or Lowes or some place like that rather then buying the more expensive Calcium Plus stuff sold at pool stores.

After your saying that's not needed for pools with vinyl liners, I'm not sure what to do next?

Using an intex SWG and it is not giving me any warnings of high salt, even though it appears my salt level is a litle high........just not sure what is causing the cloudy water..............pool does not look grenn at all.

Postby **chem geek** » Mon 09 Jun, 2014 13:04

You don't need calcium in a vinyl pool. The purpose of calcium hardness and total alkalinity (bicarbonate) is to saturate the water with calcium carbonate to protect plaster surfaces or grout in between tile. You don't have that so don't need the calcium. You need to decide whose advice you are going to follow since you can't mix and match. Either follow what is described in the Pool School or follow the advice from Leslie's. One will be a lot less expensive than the other and more reliable at maintaining your pool.

If the FC and CYA readings are correct, then the cloudiness is probably poor filtration/circulation. Intex pools often have undersized pumps and only a single return for the water going into the pool. Run your filter longer and point your return diagonally downwards to try and mix up the water to filter it better. Examine your filter to make sure water isn't bypassing it (i.e. tears in a cartridge filter or channeling in a sand filter).

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Mon 09 Jun, 2014 14:16

Not using a intex pump/filter...............I have a sand filter, 1 1/2 hp pump, plenty of flow, when i back flush it does come out dirty so I believe it is filtering. When the water comes out, the end of the hose the water foams up almost like soap suds.

When to a second pool store to check the water, they say the same thing, needs Calcium hardness, this place says if you don't have it high enough the liner will be more easier to crack.......I'm not going the calcium hardness way...........Must be something else.

I'm going to run the boost longer on the SWG and hope to produce alot more cholrine. I will also angle the oulet on the pool down more to stir up the bottom and hopefully filter better.

Could my high Phosphates be a problem?

Akalininty is now up to 90 ppm, so that should be good, put the Akalinity Up in yesterday.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Mon 09 Jun, 2014 14:43

Should post this also

second pool store readings on the water tested in bold compared to leslie readings on the left

free available chlorine high 5 1.2 ppm
total available chlorine high 5 1.7 ppm
combines chlorine 0.6 ppm
salt high 3900 3600 ppm
calcium hardness low 70 60 ppm
cyanric acid low 35 35 ppm
total akalinity low 70 90 ppm
ph ok 7.6 7.9 it did rain alot last night( also raining right now)
copper ok zero 0.27 ppm
iron ok zero 0.0 ppm
phosphates high 150 they did not check phosphates

Postby **chem geek** » Tue 10 Jun, 2014 02:26

Get your own good test kit, either the Taylor K-2006 or the TF-100. If the cloudiness is from algae due to the chlorine actually being low (hard to tell since you've got wildly different readings), then you need to SLAM the pool.

If your cloudiness is a filtration issue due to fine particles sand is letting through, then you can Add DE to a Sand Filter.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Fri 13 Jun, 2014 09:57

Is De alright to use in just a sand filter...........I don't have a DE filter like below

was watching this clip on youtube and this guy is putting in a ton of it.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz97RnlATi0

why is this guy putting so much in?

Here are the directions you posted:

Figuring out how much DE to use

Start by noting the PSI reading on the filter with the pump running.
Mix 1/4 cup of DE with water in a bucket and pour that slowly into the skimmer. Remove the skimmer sock, if any, before adding DE.
Give the system about two minutes to stabilize.
Note the pressure on the filter and repeat the second and third steps until the pressure has gone up by one PSI. This will typically take around 1-2 cups of DE.

Postby **chem geek** » Fri 13 Jun, 2014 13:04

You should not add very much DE to a sand filter. The proper instructions for doing so are in Add DE to a Sand Filter.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Sat 14 Jun, 2014 07:45

I added about 3/4 of a cup of DE mixed 3 times in a bucket, 1/4 cup each bucket. I see no difference after running it 12 hours.........Still cloudy, chlorine levels are super high. I even used some of that cystal clear stuff that suppose to make all the small particles of dirt cling together and fall to the bottom to be vacummed up.

Nothing is working, I'm disgusted with it. I'm ready to just close it up and say the hell with it!

Only thing I havn't tried is the Calcium Hardness stuff.

Postby **chem geek** » Sat 14 Jun, 2014 17:32

It sounds like your filtration is not working or your circulation is very poor. Be sure your valves aren't set to recirculate bypassing the filter and that your filter doesn't have channeling or other problems. Neither a clarifier nor DE will help if your circulation/filtration isn't any good.

Adding calcium hardness won't clear up the water. In fact, if you add too much it can cause cloudiness from over-saturation of calcium carbonate. You could go through the 100 Reasons for Cloudy Swimming Pool Water to see if anything rings a bell, but assuming your readings are correct with chlorine high and the pH, TA and CH not too high, this does sound like the circulation/filtration is not working properly.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Sun 15 Jun, 2014 16:40

Guess I will put a plug on the side of the pool on the return side and shut the valve off near the pump on the strainer side and take a look inside the filter tank and check out the turning valve on top of the tank.

Sad part is the sand in the tank was put in last year at the beginning of the pool season and worked fine all summer long last year.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Mon 16 Jun, 2014 22:05

Don't see anything wrong with the filter.

My control on top of the filter is like this one.
http://www.pools.com/parts/Waterway-Topmount-Valve_-925

thought maybe my Spider Gasket was bad allowing the dirty water to out through the return outlet to the pool but it looks perfect, spring looks like it's doing it job too.

I will be going Going for my 4th water test in the morning to the 4th different pool store.

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Wed 18 Jun, 2014 14:58

Water test showed chlorine level low, could mostly be because we had some very hot sunny days.

Well anyway, added 2 shot bags and just used a wet vac and sucked out all the sand from the filter tank. Replaced all the sand with new.

So we can eliminate any problems with it being the filter or pump.........If it doesn't clear up now it is a chemical related problem I guess

Jimbochap · Postby **Jimbochap** » Wed 18 Jun, 2014 14:59

"shock bags", not shot bags.......