Chem-less copper Ionizer

stanton · Postby **stanton** » Wed 05 Sep, 2007 22:06

Anyone have one of these units? I just purchased one and looking for some fellow pool owners to share info and learn from.

unhappypoolowner · Postby **unhappypoolowner** » Thu 20 Sep, 2007 10:07

My advice - take it back for a refund. I made the mistake of purchasing one about a year and a half ago. It hase never worked! But I have gone through four sets of copper cathodes at about $125 per set. I have had to run my filter almost continuously (VERY EXPENSIVE) during the hot months and I have had to add hundreds of dollars of non-chlorine shock treatment just to get clean water. Even more absurd is that I have had to add about 2 gallons per week of muriatic acid in order to keep the pH down as required by the manufacturer.

ray · Postby **ray** » Sat 10 May, 2008 10:56

when using ionization you should use a chlorine level of 0.4ppm (US min) as an oxidant (breaks down sun creams and oils produced by the skin.)
ionization softens the water and should cost about 1.5 pence per day to run. you can buy copper test strips to test the water and safe levels are between 0.15 and 0.5 ppm.
for more ionization info visit purepool.co.uk

Postby **Strannik-au** » Sun 11 May, 2008 02:37

Any method of sanitation which doesn't include chlorine or bromine is useless since it doesn't kill bacteria quickly enough and there is no residual left.

So you would still need to use chlorine with it, and the question is: why bother then?

bubba · Postby **bubba** » Tue 12 Aug, 2008 13:06

highly dissagree! i own a copper ionizer and besides non chlorine shocking everyother week my pool is maintaince AND chemical free! my pool water is sparkling clean too. EBAY 225.00 best money i ever spent

Postby **Strannik-au** » Wed 13 Aug, 2008 06:26

If you have to shock every other week it means your device is useless.

Normally you don't have to shock if your device is coping with the demand.

Postby **chem geek** » Wed 13 Aug, 2008 10:34

If the device is just a copper ionizer and not also an ozonator, then there is no oxidizer in the pool which is why a non-chlorine shock is needed to oxidize the ammonia/urea from sweat/urine, among other things.

Copper by itself kills bacteria slowly which is why it is not an EPA-registered sanitizer. In sufficiently high levels, it will prevent algae growth, but so will other algaecide approaches such as PolyQuat 60 or use of a phosphate remover and, of course, chlorine alone (at levels high enough relative to CYA) will prevent algae growth. Silver also kills bacteria, but again slowly. These metal ions also have mixed results with respect to inactivation of viruses.

Specifically, copper/silver take on the order of 10-30 minutes to achieve 99% kill rates of most bacteria -- bacteria can double in population every 15-60 minutes in ideal conditions so this is fast enough to prevent uncontrolled growth, but not person-to-person transmission. Chlorine at a level of an FC that is about 10% of the CYA level has 99% kill times of around 0.5 to 2 minutes which is generally fast enough to prevent person-to-person transmission.

At higher temperatures found in a hot tub and when used in conjunction with a residual of non-chlorine shock (specifically, MPS), kill times from silver can be closer to that of chlorine and this is the basis of the Nature2 system for spas. However, this is not the situation for pools and kill times are far slower since a residual of MPS is not maintained and the temperature is lower.

So for a public pool the use of a metal ionizer alone would not be allowed. In a private pool, the risk is mostly in person-to-person transmission of pathogens rather than any runaway bacterial growth. Just because the water is crystal clear does not mean that it is safe. The risk is low, but much higher than that of using chlorine.

The other downside of using copper is that there is a risk of staining, especially if the pH rises or the copper level gets too high. Blondes can have their hair get a green tint from the copper as well.

Richard

1pooroldmom · Postby **1pooroldmom** » Mon 13 Apr, 2009 16:27

I got a Chem-less system last year and justed added a gallon of bleach every week (or every other week if we didn't get to swim due to vacation or weather). It kept my pool clear and clean all year. Still tested with the reguar chlorine test kit for pH and never had a problem. I think I may need to replace the copper cathodes this year though and can't seem to find out how to????? Any help getting or replaceing the cathode would help. Eastern NC.

dave cairns · Postby **dave cairns** » Sun 19 Apr, 2009 05:14

i have used my ionizer 4 2 years now.i had no trouble with it for 18 months.beautiful clean soft water you could drink. lately ive had problems and had needed to shock treatment with liquid chlorine andor acid. seems the higher temperatures i n cairns have something to do with it. i have fixed this problem by floating a stabilizer tablet in the filter box. slight odour when filter turns on but that seems to be the only aftereffect.working well now

touch wood

ionizer · Postby **ionizer** » Thu 21 May, 2009 19:23

no pool sanitizer system is perfect, most customers expect to much out of them, the chemless system has been a dependable system with very little problems, if there is a problem i suggest you contact the company for help because they can't help you if they don't know that there is a problem.

bonzainy144 · Postby **bonzainy144** » Sat 27 Jun, 2009 12:54

Hi ,I have a copper ionizer too and I'm having a problem with cloudy water even though my water is perfect according to watsons family leisure. Bonnie

Postby **chem geek** » Sat 27 Jun, 2009 16:03

ionizer wrote:no pool sanitizer system is perfect, most customers expect to much out of them, the chemless system has been a dependable system with very little problems, if there is a problem i suggest you contact the company for help because they can't help you if they don't know that there is a problem.

That's true that none is perfect, but all I add to my 16,000 gallon pool is 7 cups of 12.5% chlorinating liquid twice a week costing $15 plus every month or two I add a cup or two of acid. That's it. Doesn't get much simpler, easier, or less expensive than that. The water is crystal clear. Of course, I have a pool cover so that makes the chlorine usage low at around 1 ppm FC per day so I don't need to add chlorine every day or two. I don't need to shock since I keep my Free Chlorine (FC) at no lower than 7.5% of the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. I don't need any supplemental algaecide nor phosphate remover in spite of my pool's phosphate level being around 2000-3000 ppb. It isn't the only way to manage a pool, but it is one way.

This year I added 50 ppm Borates to the pool which is purely optional but does seem to provide some insurance at preventing algae growth if I ever let the FC get too low (relative to CYA). It also provides additional pH buffering though that was not a problem in my pool.

Richard

fanta · Postby **fanta** » Fri 31 Jul, 2009 17:55

bubba wrote:highly dissagree! i own a copper ionizer and besides non chlorine shocking everyother week my pool is maintaince AND chemical free! my pool water is sparkling clean too. EBAY 225.00 best money i ever spent

We spent almost $4000 on a new liner/filter rebuild/ionizer for our 20,000 gallon inground pool. The water is visually perfect, but highly alkaline (well water: not hard, but alkaline). We have added nine gallons of muratic acid in the past three weeks, and are adding again tonight. On the other hand, Ph and other readings are where they should be. Jury is still out on whether to add bleach (and a stabilizer?), but the pool sure is nice to swim in...and it doesn't smell of anything.

BTW, any ionizer users having problems with FIELD RATS going for a swim in the pool? Since we changed over, seems like the wildlife is throwing a party in the backyard! Gross.

Deaun

Pool owner who uses an ioniser

Fitted an ioniser in May 2009 when the chlorinator electrodes wore out. Always disliked having to have the high chlorine concentrations in the pool, which incidently never got rid of black spot algae in particular parts of the pool. Yes I was sceptical especially as no pool shops advocated the use of an ioniser. The common refrain was that ionisers could not cope with tropical conditions (Brisbane).
All went well through the winter months and then we hit the hot humid algae growth promoting summer and ............. Nothing! No change. No algae. Black spot has disappeared. The water is clean and clear. Now I ask myself why didn't I change systems years ago?
This is how I operate the pool: I run the filter along with the ioniser for 3 hours each day (used to be 8 hours with the chlorinator). Once a week I put in 1 litre of liquid chlorine (60 cents at the local pool shop) to oxidise the dead algae killed by the ions, test pH and copper levels. Copper is starting to get a bit high now so I'm going to run the ioniser for only an hour and a half for the next few weeks. Oh yes the pool is not that small, its 67000 litres and I paid Aus $1200 for the ionizer, which was $400 less than a new autochlorinator from the local pool shops. Hope this helps. I'm also going to stop using chlorine as an oxidiser and try hydrogen peroxide instead.

Guest · Postby **Guest** » Mon 18 Jan, 2010 04:31

I love ions too, though I have stuck with chlorine. I keep free chlorine at around 0.5ppm and no one can even tell that there is any chlorine in the water. It's cheap and easy too.

I tried monopersulfate but I couldn't measure residuals and ended up shocking more often than needed so it cost me a fortune.

Our ioniser puts out copper and silver ions which supposedly beats plain copper hands down.