24' overlap liner appears to be too small

[chumley]

I am new to this forum (looks like a great forum) and have as many others appear to have a liner issue. I purchased a used 24' round abg pool late last fall, was unable to start the ground work to install it due to extremely bad wet weather. I did order a new liner to install (off the net - looked like a good deal and was a thicker liner than I could buy locally). I excavated the base out, installed a nice thick base including 3' around the perimeter, packed it with a compactor. Installed the blocks to support the legs, they are laser levelled, installed the wall, 2" of compacted playground sand and bought the prefab coves. I attempted to install the liner after spending much time ensuring it was virtually wrinkle free. I did notice the base to wall seam seemed to be about 8" in from the wall all around the pool. I hung the liner over the wall, placing the coping strip over it as I moved along (I only left a few inches over the wall) and then as I moved further along I placed the top rails loosely but on top to provide support for the walls (is this wrong?). When I got about half way around I could see things were not going well as the liner bottom appeared to be shifting and the liner was getting tighter at the wall. By the time I got about 10' away from where I started I could play a tune on the liner that was left to install and there was no way that liner was going to go on the last 10' I tried to no avail. Tried to figure out what was wrong. The base, walls, everthing was installed textbook. I argued with the place I bought it from, sent them pictures of my 24' pool with a tape measure across it and showing them the liner would not fit. I also showed them a tape measure across the seam to seam at the bottom and it was 22'2". They finally got another one ordered up from their supplier and after a couple of weeks of waiting I finally got it (all the while my walls were sitting up - I attached the top rail and fastened the top to bottom with about 4 uprights to hold it together and had a tarp over it). I attempted to install the next liner, but measure across the bottom this time. It was close to 24' - I thought great we are finally going to get this thing up. But as I again installed it things went great half way and then the same symptoms appeared with it being too tight. It was late in the evening I pulled down the liner, put my rails back together and tarped it, however a very bad storm blew in that night and knocked it down. Now I need more parts to repair it (waiting for them right now).
The big question is am I installing this wrong - should I maybe not put the top rail on behind as I install the liner? When I tried to pull the second liner over the wall, the wall was pulling inward and there was no way it would go over it. Anyone have any suggestions. I would appreciate it. My kids have had their summer ruined by all these problems:cry:

[chumley]

Before I posted I read a lot of the other posts and it appears to be a lot of liners out there that don't seem to fit properly. The common thing is a lot of responses say don't worry the liners will stretch. The other posts were all for beaded or j hook type liners. Does this hold true with overlaps as well? Should the liner sit nicely in without stressing the walls or should it be pulling them in until the water fills up and pushes out the walls? Have I done wrong in hanging the liner and installing the top rail behind to support the walls, thus not allowing the walls to "cave in" and allow the liner to somehow fit on and stretch out?
Can someone with experience in installing an overlap liner please give me some advice. I am wondering if I should be ordering a new liner right now or have I been installing them wrong by putting the rail on after installing the coping?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Litoq]

Don't know about overlap liners but since you are having the same problem i had with my jbead, I guess the problem occurs with all types of liners. I don't think they were meant to fit exactly...I think they were made to stretch to fit. As mentioned in several posts before, install during a warm (hot is even better) sunny day. Try leaving it opened up in the sun for couple of hours before hanging it to let it warm up. Then hang it while at the same time pulling the part of the liner going on the wall edge, place the coping, then the top rail. Of course you will need another person to help you do this. As far as putting on the top rails, that's the way I did and it worked. Matter of fact, the rails were the only thing holding everything together and without it, all would cave in (I learned the hard way). I guess I could have bought some clamps and metal posts but I didn't want to spend more money then I had to.

[Backglass]

Hmmm...when I replaced the overlap liner on my old 18' round above ground, I had MORE than enough liner. In fact I ended up cutting a bunch off after it was full because it looked so bad. The stretching thing is just for beaded liner...you are supposed to have some excess, thats why its called overlap.

I would call whoever you bought it from and complain.

[chumley]

I thought the liner should fit in without having to stretch it and can't find anything in any instructions anyone has out there that shows anything other than hang the liner in the pool, smooth out wrinkles and add water.
Have any pro's out there installed a abg overlap liners and what's the consensus? Wrong installation procedure or another bad liner? I need to find out real soon because I need to know whether I should try one more time (when I get my replacement rails) to shoehorn the liner in or order a new one "one more time".
Thanks

[Backglass]

I thought the liner should fit in without having to stretch it and can't find anything in any instructions anyone has out there that shows anything other than hang the liner in the pool, smooth out wrinkles and add water.
Have any pro's out there installed a abg overlap liners and what's the consensus? Wrong installation procedure or another bad liner? I need to find out real soon because I need to know whether I should try one more time (when I get my replacement rails) to shoehorn the liner in or order a new one "one more time".
Thanks

Again...an overlap liner is supposed to "overlap". You should have at least 6 inches of liner all the way around on a flat bottom pool.

Now...if you have a "deep end" on your above ground pool or have dug into the earth at all, that's a whole different ballgame. Above ground liner sizes assume a flat bottom.

[chumley]

If that is the case (and everthing that I have seen in pictures it looks like you hang the pool over the walls by 6" or so and smooth out the liner and you're good to go), then methinks I have another bum liner. But what are the odds of that. I will buy one locally and eat the other one I guess, but I am gun shy.

[Guest]

Sounds to me you are getting a crappy liner X's 2! I'd take pics of it and send them to the company and DEMAND your money back no IF's, AND's or BUT's about it!

I don't like being ripped off! Can't you tell???

[chumley]

I am still waiting for my parts to ship in so I can attempt to put my pool up again. In the mean time I went to one of the local pool companies and asked if I could talk to one of their installers. They took my name and the guy did call me back. I told him my story and he's going yep, yep - I'm going what do you me yep - he says he knows exactly what I am talking about with the liner appearing too tight to install and has seen it many times. He says you need to start installing the liner, put on the coping strip (remember this is an overlap type) and stretch on the liner as you hang it over the wall - heat helps, he says obviously the setting of the liner in the sun before and a hot sun during install helps but there are ways around it. He says stretch it before putting the coping on, then proceed following with the rails to stabilize the walls as I was doing. Continue until it is on. If you don't appear to have enough slack he says hot water poured on the liner will make it stretch. I am thinking a hair dryer might work well (a heat gun is way too hot). So I am going to give this a try with the apparent bum liner when I get my replacement rails and will post whether I am successful or not. If indeed I am sucessful, I would like to post where everyone can see it to prevent the grief I have gone through with this due to the lack of instructions out there (not here as this is a very valuable site) but I mean other resources on the net, etc. like pool installation instructions which do not meniton anything about this kind of issue which I would think would be fairly common.
In any event, we will see..... I will post an update (I am hoping successfully after an installation).
Thanks for the replies.

[Backglass]

He says you need to start installing the liner, put on the coping strip (remember this is an overlap type) and stretch on the liner as you hang it over the wall - heat helps, he says obviously the setting of the liner in the sun before and a hot sun during install helps but there are ways around it. He says stretch it before putting the coping on, then proceed following with the rails to stabilize the walls as I was doing.

Hmmm, well that wasn't my liner replacement experience. When I replaced the liner on my old 18' round above ground pool, it was so big I could have installed it in the dead of winter. I'll bet it hung over 12-14 inches all the way around. All I did was literally plop it in, start filling, and walk around smoothing out wrinkles as the water rose. After it was full, I installed the coping strips and sliced off the excess.

There must be a lot of variance from manufacture to manufacturer. I got mine from intheswim . com, but this was 6 years ago.

[Litoq]

Backglass, the way you describe installing the overlap liner, it seems a breeze to install. Right now, I'm dealing with a slipping jbead liner and it was a very difficult and nerve-racking installation. It is slipping in the area where it stretched the most. Is there a reason to install beaded liners rather than overlaps?

[Backglass]

Backglass, the way you describe installing the overlap liner, it seems a breeze to install. Right now, I'm dealing with a slipping jbead liner and it was a very difficult and nerve-racking installation. It is slipping in the area where it stretched the most. Is there a reason to install beaded liners rather than overlaps?

It really was, and I was a liner *spamm* who didn't have a clue what he was doing! The toughest part was cutting the hole for the skimmer & return.

Now with Beaded liners, I understand it's a whole different ball game (I've never had a beaded liner). I believe that some pools require a beaded liner by design...I have no idea if you can switch to overlap.

[chumley]

Thanks for the replies. I really does appear from what some people are saying that the manuafacturers have quite a variance. I used to have a small 12' round x 36' high pool for the kids (actually we had a second one when the first was well used) and the liner which was an overlap virually hung on the wall and fit perfect - no stretching. The one I am trying to install appears way too small, however the bottom seam does appear to be the mandatory 24' across for my pool, that's why I was thinking something was fishy. The first liner which I ordered from Backyard City and was made by SK Plastics was 22'-4" from seam to seam.
I will pray for my repacement rails to come in (any day now) and some warm weather - It' been smoking hot for the last month and a half and now it seems to have cooled off and got in the cloudy rainy thing. I might not have the heat I need. Oh well I guess I will try the hot water and/or hair dryer trick to install. I will update with my progress when I get the rails. I really wish there was some good information on these liners as all the info infers, you just hang it on the wall, put the coping strip on, fill partially with water, put the top rail and supports on and away you go - if only it was that easy.
I will update. Thanks for the replies.

[chumley]

After much heartbreak - success finally and wouldn't you know it the hot weather went away and we are gettting way below normal temps. I haven't had a chance to post as have been too busy, however thought I should post my results and to reinforce the information that I received and experienced. We installed the liner the exact same way as I had previously with the exception of installing the first coping strip and then stretching liner (not yanking on it but firmly pulling) while warming the top part with a hair dryer. We worked around the pool and when we got to the same point we didn't have any slack previously, we had almost the exact amount of slack required to allow us to get it on. It appeared the liner fit reasonably close to walls on the bottom and right at the top with the stretching but in the middle part of the wall it seemed it was going to have to stretch a fair amount. I tried to get the wrinkles out of the floor, however it looked like crap and when I moved the wrinkles out of one area it merely shifted it to that area. I thought I could work out from the center to the perimeter then to the wall but when I tried to move the wrinkles towards the wall it was impossible as the wrinkle reappeared as there was nothing to hold it back. I carried on to put in a couple of inches of water, then started in the middle as suggested and worked my way to the edges with my hands and a squeegie. I spent a couple of hours in the pool doing this and it worked excellent. I got 99% of the wrinkles out - I was amazed. It seems we just needed that bit of water to keep the liner in place when the wrinkles were shifted. We continued trying to fill the pool with water over the weekend but it was painfully slow as I live out of town and have a jet pump which is a piece of junk and it would have taken me a week to fill the pool. I ended up having only 12" of water in the pool after 36 hours so I ordered up a truck load of water early this week ($215.00 for 5500 gallons) but had to wait a day for the guy to come. That put the water perfectly just under my return liner so we could cut out and install return and skimmer. We then topped up with the hose and I have had the pool circulating the wateer and adjusting the balance while I am finishing up my plumbing. Just vacuumed the pool last night, balanced the water overnight and put in shock this morning and should be pooling this weekend. I just hope we get some nice days to use it, although I did install 4 of the 2 x 20' solar panels on my roof so if there's any sun it should help the heating.


In any event I would like to thank everyone for their replies and just wish (maybe a sticky might be a good thing - moderators) the manufacturers and sellers of pool liners would have some decent instructions explaining that some liners are tighter than others and you may have to stretch them when necessary so it would save a lot of people out there a lot of heartache. The only info I could find out there ( and I combed the net )seemed to infer that you simply "hang the liner over the wall, smoooth out and fill", which couldn't be further from the truth.


I am pleased we finally got it in.