Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Pool pumps, pool filters and the plumbing of
swimming pools. Sand filters, cartridge filters,
fabric filters and alternative filter media.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre rectangular salt water, one side infinity, new Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator, 7 year old Poolrite SQI 600 pump, 7 year old Enduro EN650 Mk.2 filter with Poolrite multiport. No aeration.

Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Cameljockey » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:16

Hi guys.

I have a Poolrite ENDURO EN450 sand filter with V2000 multivalve (I think parts now very hard to get or not possible, I'm in Thailand and the local supplier/importer anyway charges sky-high prices). I owned the house and pool for only one year but dymotape on the filter says installed 2010. I will assume sand not changed since then and multiport not taken off. The owner died so I can't ask! The pump is old too but works fine.

I changed a faulty pressure gauge and now it's fine, reading middle of the green bar all the time, except lower when using suction hose for cleaning which is fine. As it never changes I finally backwashed anyway last month but water was only slightly hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. Strange that the filter would not have collected dirt after a year, unless it's all been broken down in the filter?

Now the problem. Recently after vacuuming, dirt comes back through the jets, slightly hazy water and fine dirt visibly settles again in the bottom of the pool quite quickly. Also small particles of black debris (I'm afraid I let dirt accumulate for a while and it became solid black in between some of the floor tiles) which I sweep off the bottom and vacuum up, reappear through the jets.

So I need to ask you, should I be considering that water is maybe not being filtered but just entering the multivalve and going straight back to the pool through a broken spider rubber? Or could the sand just need replacing? Or just throw it all and get a whole new filter and sand (a cost I'd rather avoid if possible)?

Thanks for any help you can give. :)


Denniswiseman
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 04:57

It seems like it's not filtering properly
I suggest first of all do a Deep Clean you shouldn't need to change your sand but add some diatomeaous earth to slightly increase the pressure through the filter also decreasing the flow through the filter would help
If you can source a new spider gasket it would be ideal but not necessary unless you have leaks and can inspect it
Teapot
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
Location: UK

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Teapot » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 06:48

I am reading that you backwashed and the water was hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. How long did you continue the backwash? It may well takes 2-3 minutes for the sand bed to expand enough to release the dirt and a couple of minutes more to actually remove the dirt.
The sand is the unknown, and could be sticky with bacterial biofilm. Did you also perform the rinse cycle before going back into filter?
On any pool the cleaning of the sand needs to be performed 1 per season, not backwash, proper clean with a hose and agitation.

One of my customers freaked when we backwashed his filter for almost 9 minutes because like you he saw the water run clear after a few seconds.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre rectangular salt water, one side infinity, new Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator, 7 year old Poolrite SQI 600 pump, 7 year old Enduro EN650 Mk.2 filter with Poolrite multiport. No aeration.

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Cameljockey » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 10:08

Denniswiseman wrote:It seems like it's not filtering properly
I suggest first of all do a Deep Clean you shouldn't need to change your sand but add some diatomeaous earth to slightly increase the pressure through the filter also decreasing the flow through the filter would help
If you can source a new spider gasket it would be ideal but not necessary unless you have leaks and can inspect it


Thanks, sounds I'd love to try a deep clean but my filter is deep inside a pumproom with electrics on the wall. I can't move it outside either due to the location of the pump room, steps, etc. unless I pay a pool company to do the job. If it came to that I think I'd just replace the filter and sand completely, pay for the kit with labour cost included in the price.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre rectangular salt water, one side infinity, new Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator, 7 year old Poolrite SQI 600 pump, 7 year old Enduro EN650 Mk.2 filter with Poolrite multiport. No aeration.

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Cameljockey » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 10:11

Teapot wrote:I am reading that you backwashed and the water was hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. How long did you continue the backwash? It may well takes 2-3 minutes for the sand bed to expand enough to release the dirt and a couple of minutes more to actually remove the dirt.
The sand is the unknown, and could be sticky with bacterial biofilm. Did you also perform the rinse cycle before going back into filter?
On any pool the cleaning of the sand needs to be performed 1 per season, not backwash, proper clean with a hose and agitation.

One of my customers freaked when we backwashed his filter for almost 9 minutes because like you he saw the water run clear after a few seconds.


Thanks teapot, that must be my first port of call. I didn't know that backwashing could go on so long, I'd heard it shouldn't be more than 2-3 minutes, but my filter might be in extreme need I guess.

The sand cleaning, 'deep clean' as mentioned by denniswiseman will be very difficult, I don't think it's feasible in my filter's location.
Denniswiseman
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 11:13

I didn't remove my filter when deep cleaning. I just set the MPV to waste and let the dirty water flow out through the MPV to waste. That's if you have a gravity waste system in your pump room
Teapot
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
Location: UK

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Teapot » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:02

I think Cameljockey, you'll need to find a way to be able to deep clean your filter, follow Dennis's advice but it's something you need to do every season to keep your pool healthy.

It's fine for filters to grab all the the horrible stuff out of your pool but you must be able to eject that muck from the filter. Domestic filters are not great at backwashing, partly because the setup is poor to start with.
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre rectangular salt water, one side infinity, new Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator, 7 year old Poolrite SQI 600 pump, 7 year old Enduro EN650 Mk.2 filter with Poolrite multiport. No aeration.

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Cameljockey » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 22:29

Denniswiseman wrote:I didn't remove my filter when deep cleaning. I just set the MPV to waste and let the dirty water flow out through the MPV to waste. That's if you have a gravity waste system in your pump room


Ah! I'll try and see if the waste flows, I think it should, thank you. First I'll need to order and wait for a new o-ring for the multivalve in case the old one is shot.
Teapot
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
Location: UK

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Teapot » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 09:15

It should be OK to take the top off the multiport and look at the gasket, then decide if its worn/damaged. Spot of glue at the intersections and some silicon grease to make it move nicely
Cameljockey
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
My Pool: 55,000 litre rectangular salt water, one side infinity, new Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator, 7 year old Poolrite SQI 600 pump, 7 year old Enduro EN650 Mk.2 filter with Poolrite multiport. No aeration.

Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?

Postby Cameljockey » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 09:37

Teapot wrote:It should be OK to take the top off the multiport and look at the gasket, then decide if its worn/damaged. Spot of glue at the intersections and some silicon grease to make it move nicely


Teapot, after I undo the six screws and lift off the multiport, even if the spider rubber is OK or can be repaired, will it definitely go back on, or is there a gasket which might need replacing? If I need a replacement on hand I will need to order/pay for/import it first. And even the spider gasket, because you can't get it in Thailand. I only operate the handle clockwise and am careful to make sure it's in the right pace before dropping it, and don't drag it around, but I have no idea how the Thai workers/pool cleaning team operated it for 6 years before I had the pool. :(

I gave a 10 minute backwash today followed by a 1 minute rinse, then another 2 minute/30 second set, the water was clear all the way through. So seems I need to open it, starting with top off the multiport and checking if the spider looks OK, and if so take the whole multivalve off and deep cleaning the sand, which will be tricky. Wish me luck, the last thing I can do is spend $400 on a new filter and sand.

Thanks for the help so far.

Return to “Pool Pumps, Filters, Plumbing & Piping”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 5 guests