Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

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AlmostUseful
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Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Thu 02 Jun, 2022 14:52

Hi all, I’m part way through my pool build here in the UK.
I’m basically free styling it, it’s a partially in ground reinforced blockwork structure, it’s 7.2x3.4m, approx 1.1m deep.

Most skimmers I’ve seen have the water level about 15m (6”) below the top of the blockwork, I can run with that if I must buy it would mean another run of block on flat to add 100mm to the structure that I’d rather avoid.

I’m looking for a lower profile skimmer so the water level doesn’t have to sit so far below the top of the walls. Found some available in mainland Europe but nothing obvious in the UK.

Can you recommend one please if you know of any?

Next question.
I’m not using main drains, so I’m going to use a low suction point to prevent the pump aerating if the water level runs low - can this be linked directly to the skimmer pipe work?

Lastly.
I was going to use 4X return jets, 2 x low ones for warm water dispersal and 2 at surface level, common advice seems to be 2x returns for a small pool like mine is ok - would 4 try to put more water back in than the single skimmer can provide? If so I’ll add another skimmer, just not sure it’s necessary. The skimmers I was looking at give a m3/hr rate but the jets don’t appear to do the same.

Anyway, hope you can help advise, this is proving to be a great project so far, looking forward to keeping you guys informed.


Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 01:23

Hello, I would say the Procopi Aquareva Mirror skimmer would fit the bill, they are made in a range of colours. Procopi got swallowed up by BWT but were based near Southend.

Low suction is ok but in my experience, plumbed via the skimmer doesn't work, as soon as the water level drops and air is drawn in it all stops working. I would however suggest an automatic top up to prevent this but electronic not the mecanical fill valve type.
With regard to skimmer numbers, yes youll get away with one but IMO 2 is still better arranged along the long edge not the end of the pool. Are you planning a separate lower warm water plumbing and pump? You need to have sufficient returns to direct dirt/leaves to the skimmer (s) for the best skimming action too few and things will miss the skimmer and then sink. I have always balanced the flow by opening up the returns to suit the normal flow and sharing the area of the pipework used, smaller holes for 4 returns and larger holes for 2 returns. If your pool is a rectangle you get dead spots in the corners so aim returns to move the water in those areas. But additional returns to help guide dirt to the skimmers. If you put your lower returns below the skimmers and aim them downwards you create a rolling water flow which is the best for water dispersion and guides more surface flow to the skimmers increasing the skimming action. Much more effective than the old surface spiral.

You havent mentioned your filter but I highly recommend using Dryden Aqua's AFM ng, I have used the regular AFM for about 17 years and its been fantastic. The latest ng version should be incredible, I will change to ng this year I hope. Also either a variable speed pump or a variable speed drive on a single speed pump with a flow gauge, FloViz are good. That allows you to tune the system for efficiency and will save a lot in electricity.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 02:07

Thank you so much! Just looked them up and I think they’re the same or similar to the others that I found (French based) so probably the ones worth going for.

I’ll work out how I’m going to locate the returns, adding another skimmer won’t be a problem if it’s going to help - another few hundred £ is nothing in the scheme of things.

When you say locate the returns below the skimmer, do you mean literally below them, or just anywhere on the wall as long as they are lower?

Happy to put the skimmers on the long walls, was only going with the short wall as that’s sort of the “end” as far as prevailing wind goes. Would you put both skimmers on one wall or have then on opposing walls?

I’ll Chuck some photos and drawings up later on to show where I think I’m going with it all.
Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 03:36

Yes below the skimmers, pointing down, you can then imagine the reflection angle and rise at the opposite wall ready for the surface jets to push that towards the skimmers. Also means one or two points of excavation.

Both skimmers on the same side to get the rolling action as aposed to the vortex action of old. The rolling action was trialed using computer fluidics software by my colleagues in the US and myself in the UK with an smart lad from University who had superb knowledge of the software and we trialed many different setups, that was the best. Will your pump be above or below the waterline?
Yes please do add some photos.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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My Pool: It’s going to be 24x12, but it’s just a hole in the ground right now.

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 04:25

Great, thanks. I’ve got about 18” behind the wall so plenty of room to get skimmer and jets under them.
Currently out in the garden mixing the concrete for the hollowblock voids so I can do the next lift of blockwork.
Aiming to finish that over the weekend.

I did some Googling on the AFM, seems a modern equivalent of sand from what I can work out, I’ll go with that. Ref the pump I hadn’t given it much thought but variable seems sensible.

Yes the pump and filter will be above the waterline. By a foot or so.
Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 04:55

Yes AFM is a replacement media for sand that works far better and most importantly doesnt biofoul. The ng version is the one to go for, 1 micron filtration and sub 1 micron with flocculent.
For efficiency stakes if the pump could go below the water line with the outlet from the filter above the water line gravity will be asdisting you. Also look for a side mounted filter not a top mounted.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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My Pool: It’s going to be 24x12, but it’s just a hole in the ground right now.

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 05:27

I could do that, no problem.

The top 18” or so of the pool is above existing ground level so it will be easy for me to box out an area I’m filling in to give me whatever space I need.

Glad I found this forum, great source of information!
AlmostUseful
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 06:15

This was after week 1 with the digger, I didn’t go wide enough or vertical enough those so had a month or so hand shaping with a mattock and shovel.

https://i.imgur.com/cO9VnhV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r7KxB2D.jpg

Currently here

https://i.imgur.com/8TWDDea.jpg

Apologies for the links rather than images, can’t seem to resize them from imgur

Would you locate the skimmers downwind as well as opposite the jets?
That makes them on the right hand side of the above photo. I assume at about 1/4 & 3/4 length position?

If it’s a 1.2m deep pool do the jets go say 400mm from the bottom or immediately below the skimmers?

Do the opposite skimmers then go higher up the wall (on the left hand side as you see above)
Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 03 Jun, 2022 09:32

Yes I would go downwind just for a little extra help from nature. Yes to 1/4 and 3/4 or thereabouts.
So as not to interfere with the skimming action i would go 300mm under the skimmer or maybe a bit more 400mm but make it easy on yourself for mounting and access.
Yes the returns on the opposite wall go higher so they influence the surface movement towards the skimmers. Just remember the pattern of return water radiates out from the return so useful on the end walls to move the water from the corners but as it radiates that pattern should guide the water into the skimmer. Think of a stone being thrown in and the radiating ripples.

Not telling you how to suck eggs but I would also place some rebar horizontal with a 90 degree bend to reinforce the corners. Personally I have always finished the top by casting in a concrete ring beam, this also makes getting the right finish height a bit easier.
What are you going to finish the walls with, a liner or tile? Etc
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon 28 Mar, 2022 15:43
My Pool: It’s going to be 24x12, but it’s just a hole in the ground right now.

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Sat 04 Jun, 2022 14:21

I’ll need to draw some things up so I can make sure I fully understand where you’re going with the jets, pretty sure I get it but just want to be clear.

It’s going to be rendered and painted, I’m basically following the 2 best YouTube home builds I’ve seen - one is Nicole from NL and the other is a guy on here who did a 3x5 pool - I’ve just upped the slab spec due to the increased span.

I won’t be using horizontal bars as they are superfluous once the ring beam is in. The pool doesn’t retain any of the surrounding ground and the bars and concrete infill are sufficient for the water retention. With the backfill behind it she’ll be grand (I’m a civil engineer btw, I’m not just guessing at this)

I’m at my final level on both ends now, 1 course needed on the field side and 2 left on the garden side - getting near to needing to purchase my plumbing kit.
Teapot1
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My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Sat 04 Jun, 2022 17:35

Hmm paint, be prepared to re do the paint work frequently 2-3 years depending on what you are using, acrylic or epoxy, worst case chlorinated rubber paint. Don't like any of them.
Thats good that you are a structural engineer, just making suggestions.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon 28 Mar, 2022 15:43
My Pool: It’s going to be 24x12, but it’s just a hole in the ground right now.

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Sun 05 Jun, 2022 07:52

The paint is just to get us away really, long term it would be nice to tile it but it’s not a job for this summer.

Will see how I get on with putting it all together, might get a top band or something done.

Was going to use the epoxy paint & top coat clear coat. If that gets me 3 years before we tile I’ll be pretty happy. It’s all a learning curve so your advice is invaluable!
Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 05 Jun, 2022 12:44

I stopped using the epoxy after saying how good it was originally when it began to flake and peel. Make sure everything is good and dry first. There was a waterproofing compound (name escapes me for now ) that was really good but I never used the two together as I gave up on the epoxy by then but maybe that would work better. I will dig out the name when I get home and let you research it.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
AlmostUseful
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon 28 Mar, 2022 15:43
My Pool: It’s going to be 24x12, but it’s just a hole in the ground right now.

Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby AlmostUseful » Sun 05 Jun, 2022 15:48

So the plan is to use waterproofing compound within the render, I’ve got the spec sheet somewhere. Is that what you meant or a separate element between the render and paint?
Teapot1
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Re: Recommended pool skimmers & returns?

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 05 Jun, 2022 16:16

Using something like Sika waterproofing in the mix is good. Frequently this part was missed on pools I worked on (cost cutting by the builders most likely!)
So I used a surface penetrating sealer designed for constant immersion in water as many are not.
https://eu.laticrete.com/en/tile-and-st ... /hydro-ban
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.

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