Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

The basics of swimming pool maintenance.
New swimming pool owner's questions.
Help getting started with daily pool care.
Okoth
I'm new here
I'm new here
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:21
My Pool: Desjoyaux pool. Vinyl. 14.000 gal. Desjoyaux filter bags, 6 and 15 microns. Pentair pool test kit for Cl and pH. Indonesia

Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Okoth » Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:30

After struggling to get rid of algae for about a year, I drained the water, cleaned the pool and today fresh mountain water will arrive. I want to double check the steps to balance the pool. Are these the right ones? And can I use Poly Aluminium Chlorine as a sequestering agent? Or do I need any sequestering agent at all?

1. Allow pool pump and filtration system to run continuously until the pool is clean and the chemicals are balanced.
2. Test the pool water for pH, chlorine and total alkalinity.
3. Adjust the pH to 6.8.
4. Add a sequestering agent.
5. Allow two days for the pool balance to settle. Keep the pump running and test the pool water daily.
6. Add chlorine until the chlorine level is between 1.0 and 2.0. Allow 24 hours for the pool chemicals to stabilize.
7. Raise the pH to between 7.2 and 7.4.

I don't have any algaecide today (shop's not open). Maybe tomorrow I can get it. Do/can/should I use Poly Aluminium Chlorine instead today? And if yes, the PAC I have here is powder. How and how much do I need to add. I kind of live in a jungle and no expertise here is available... Bit of a struggle to have a pool here.

And let's say in the best-case scenario, the pH is around 6.8. Can I add chlorine immediately to 2ppm? Just to prevent algae from growing because I don't have algaecide today...

Alternatively, would it be an idea to shock the pool after the pH is at 6.8 to kill any algae if there?


Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Teapot1 » Sun 10 Oct, 2021 09:43

Chlorine IS the best algaecide.
PAC is NOT a sequestrant it is a flocculent.
Why is your pH at 6.8, is that the shipped in water?
If you had found this site earlier we could have saved you the pain but never mind you are here now.
Add the chlorine, it wont last that long without cyanuric acid CYA stabiliser in the water so you may want to use chlorine pucks for a while or buy some stabiliser separately.
What is your pool made from? If its tile/plaster etc get the pH up a bit to protect the surface, the pH will rise when you add the chlorine but will drop back a bit as it gets used up. Dont adjust the TA yet.
What are you trying to sequester?
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2184
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 10 Oct, 2021 14:12

It would be a good idea to have the water tested before delivery so that you can be prepared for any adjustment before hand
Okoth
I'm new here
I'm new here
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:21
My Pool: Desjoyaux pool. Vinyl. 14.000 gal. Desjoyaux filter bags, 6 and 15 microns. Pentair pool test kit for Cl and pH. Indonesia

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Okoth » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 21:29

Sorry guys, didn't get an email notification. Maybe because it was my first post. I also didn't get an confirmation my post was approved. I'll see later whether it ended up in a spam folder.

It's a vinyl pool. 14000 gallons. I live in Indonesia. Temp is always above 90 degrees.

The above list is all over internet if you search for starting a new pool. So I just copied it ;)

This is what I get to maintain the pool:
- 20g and 200g TCCA tablets for shocking and maintenance
- Soda ash
- Sodium bisulfate
- OTO chlorine liquid with a level between 0.3 - 3
- digital pH meter
- useless testing strips for FC, TC, TA, Hardness, CYA
- PAC

That's really it. No luxury of chemicals to raise or lower the CYA, except for the TCCA tablets. Nothing to measure the CYA or TA. The test stips I use are useless. At least for CYA.

The water is very clear but when I turn on the light at night, I can see the particles floating in the water. I'm happy with this mountain water. The previous water was bad and a struggle to keep it clear and algae free.

pH at the moment is 7.6, CL is about 2.5. That's all I can measure guys lol

On Sunday, I filled the pool. pH around 7.4. Sunday evening I shocked the pool.
Monday morning I checked the pH and CL: 7.6 and 3+. Vacuumed and brushed it twice that day.
Tuesday morning I added 230gr of Sodium bisulfate, trying to lower the pH to 7.2.

Testing the water before delivery is not an option here lol. Just think of having a pool in the jungle with the list above... I'm already very advanced having a digital pH meter.

I know it's hard to give advise, but that's how I have to manage it. Pool cleaners here use copper sulfate, PAC and chlorine to keep pools algae free here. The one I asked wanted to add 2 pounds of copper sulfate and then I asked him to go home. Crazy.
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2184
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Denniswiseman » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 02:34

Use these common products to balance your pool if you can get them
Liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite or plain bleach) Liquid chlorine only adds salt
Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to lower pH and TA
Bicarbonate of soda to raise TA
Aeration will raise pH only
Soda ash will raise pH and TA

Excessive CYA renders your chlorine ineffective and you have to use more to get the same sanitation
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm
To reduce your CYA you have to do a partial drain and refill
Continuous use of Trichlor/Dichlor will raise your CYA which means you have to raise your chlorine level as well

Keep the copper out. Don't use copper algaecide as the effects aren't always desirable. Use a Polyquat 60
(Any brand as long as the ingredients are "Poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride" at 60% concentration.)
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Teapot1 » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 10:28

Here I have to disagree with Dennis, a rare thing but here I go.
Polyquat isnt strong enough to do anything about algae until you use a lot. There are test kits available for polyquat, afterall you would want to know if there was enough wouldn't you, Test kits on sale any pool shop you have seen, thought not.
Copper at the right concentration can stop algae growth but again you need a decent test for it. As its a vinyl pool it would be safe to use it but if your pH ever get near 8.1+ it will drop out of suspension and can cause a stain this can happen with chlorine shocking regimes. I used an ioniser for many years to test them against people who made comment without testing them. Copper sulphate is more likely to stain than the ionised version. Chlorine is still cheaper and better but if you let the level drop in your climate it sounds like you'll have a problem so copper could assist. Polyquat however is oxidised by chlorine so your chlorine will go quicker and you'll need more and then of course more polyquat. Thats one reason why the pool industry loves it.
Can you not order a CYA test kit from somewhere on line as you really do need one. Being vinyl the hardness doesnt really matter and I would advise you to run with a lower TA around 40-50ppm to prevent pH rising.
After about 8 chlorine pucks 3" you should have around 30-40ppm of CYA and you need to get to that level to keep the chlorine in your pool. You should test for phosphates if you can as that's algae food and lowering phosphates is a good way of eliminating algae compared to constantly adding polyquat. Aquarium shops often have test kits because the pool shops dont because they are idiots.
Okoth
I'm new here
I'm new here
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:21
My Pool: Desjoyaux pool. Vinyl. 14.000 gal. Desjoyaux filter bags, 6 and 15 microns. Pentair pool test kit for Cl and pH. Indonesia

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Okoth » Thu 14 Oct, 2021 17:00

This is quite helpful to me, Dennis, thank you. Most of the chemicals in this list I can get here. The problem is that I cannot test their levels, except for pH and chlorine. Hopefully I'll be able to go abroad soon and buy it. Sending test kits with tablets or liquids to Indonesia is not an option since the customs won't allow it.

I'd like to use Polyquat 60 but it's not available here. What we have here is an algaecide with Quarternary Ammonium Compounds, benzyl C12-C16-alkyldimethyl chlorides. It might be the same, I don't know. It worked as in terms of getting rid of the algae, but it left green stripes on the pool liner that I couldn't brush off. I couldn't find anything on the lable that says there is copper in it.

Draining the pool water happens throughout the year. We get quite a lot of rain and in December the rain season starts again. That might lower the CYA enough. Wish I could measure it though.

Maybe I shouldn't be too concerned about the CYA or algae struggle and not being able to measure the chemical levels. I am very happy with the water I got last time and I don't mind replacing the water every 2 years. Cost me only $340...
Okoth
I'm new here
I'm new here
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:21
My Pool: Desjoyaux pool. Vinyl. 14.000 gal. Desjoyaux filter bags, 6 and 15 microns. Pentair pool test kit for Cl and pH. Indonesia

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Okoth » Thu 14 Oct, 2021 18:08

Thanks Teapot1. Also very helpful information. We don't need to worry about polyquat because I can't buy it here. Same for the test kits to test TA or CYA, and chemicals. Really sucks. Makes it harder to maintain the pool but not impossible. So only a test kit for CL and pH for me.

I kind of like copper (sulfate). I used it in the pool. 65gr for 50.000 liters of water to keep it below 0.5 ppm. The algae was complete gone. Very effective. Got stains though, I used ground water and maybe there is iron in it. I tested the ground water 2 years ago and there was hardly any iron. pH was low at the time of stains, between 6.8 and 7. I haven't tested the community/ground/pool water yet but I soon will.

Interesting about the CYA from TCCA tablets. I didn't know it went that fast. No wonder I had the feeling the CYA in my previous pool water had to be high because after shocking the pool it sometimes took 10 days to get the chlorine back below 3.

I like the idea of testing for phosphates, I have been thinking about it in the past. There are many aquarium shops here so that shouldn't be a problem. Do you know what chemicals can reduce the phosphates in a pool? No brands please, because I can't get those here. Chemicals I might be able to get.

Thinking of using the TCCA tablets now and switch to liquid chlorine later. And when the CL level drops too fast switching back to the tablets again for a while. I like the idea of using bleach. I can buy 10-12% Sodium hypochlorite 35kg for USD 12.50. That could work. I'm used to tablets. How (thinking of white stains at the vinyl liner) and how much do I need to use to raise the CL from 2 to 3ppm in a pool of 50.000 liters with a pH of 7.4?
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2184
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Denniswiseman » Fri 15 Oct, 2021 01:50

This Pool Maths should help you work out how much to add
Denniswiseman
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2184
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Denniswiseman » Fri 15 Oct, 2021 03:08

Bear in mind that chlorine and CYA are linked
Excessive CYA renders your chlorine ineffective and you have to use more to get the same sanitation
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm
To reduce your CYA you have to do a partial drain and refill
Continuous use of Trichlor/Dichlor will raise your CYA which means you have to raise your chlorine level as well
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 15 Oct, 2021 07:04

Okoth wrote:
I'd like to use Polyquat 60 but it's not available here. What we have here is an algaecide with Quarternary Ammonium Compounds, benzyl C12-C16-alkyldimethyl chlorides. It might be the same, I don't know.
..

Yes it is, although some formulas have additional proprietary poly's as the basic quat can cause foaming.

Lanthanum chloride is the phosphate lowering compound, again if pool shops dont have it the aquarium shops will. Can make the water temporarily cloudy.
500ml of 10% chlorine will give you 1ppm if its fresh, if its old it can be less as it degrades.
5lts will give 10ppm or as near as damn it
Okoth
I'm new here
I'm new here
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 09 Oct, 2021 19:21
My Pool: Desjoyaux pool. Vinyl. 14.000 gal. Desjoyaux filter bags, 6 and 15 microns. Pentair pool test kit for Cl and pH. Indonesia

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Okoth » Sat 16 Oct, 2021 04:34

Okay, thank you guys for the information. Very helpful altogether. I'm going to see what I can get.
Teapot1
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 00:43
My Pool: 12000 gallons vinyl liner,

Re: Replacing pool water steps and Poly Aluminum Chlorine

Postby Teapot1 » Sat 16 Oct, 2021 05:08

Let us know how you get on please.

Return to “Basics for New Pool Owners”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], Google. [bot] and 0 guests