Seeking help for chronic pool issues

[JCINAZ]

Problem: Algae and cloudy water. Started mid summer, never been able to tame it.
FC: 1.7
TC: 1.76
pH: 8
TA: 71
CH: 262
CYA: 160
Phosphates: 1344
My pool: Round, 17k Ga, Pebble tec
Pool chemicals: HomeDepot clorine tabs in floater always, Shock packets as needed
My pump & filter: Pentair cartridge filters CCP420 (New as of 5/22, Last cleaned early October), Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pool Pump, Dedicated vacuum line to Hayward Aquanaut 400 Cleaner
Other info: Phoenix, Arizona. Hot weather until this week, Now ranging from Highs: Low 80s to Lows: mid 50s New pool surfacing and water in 5/22.

I am desperate for help. I have been trying to maintain my newly remodeled pool myself for months using testing strips and gave up. It only got worse so I concluded I didn't know what I was doing. I started getting my pool water tested at my local pool store and they had a more advanced testing method. I took their advice and bought over a hundred dollars of chemicals to try to solve it, but they gave incomplete advice and their solutions didn't work. My PH/Alkalinity would either go to high, then low, then too high again. They told me my Phosphates were too high, so I bought a Phosphate remover, which didn't do a thing. They forgot to mention I need to take out the cartridges to clean them after using it, which I then did, but it didn't make a difference. My phosphates have been over 1000 since I started working with them. Their report says it should be between 0-100.

Based on my latest test results above, they are recommending. 5lbs of baking soda, add acid, 3 bags of shock.

My questions are:
1. What testing kit is recommended so I can successfully test myself. The strips I use seem to be way to hard to read and align the colors accurately visually.
2. With my latest test results above, do you agree with the recommendation from the pool store?
3. Do I need to deal with the Phosphates issue? The test result number is way off of the recommended range. I spent $40 on a phosphate remover, at their recommendation, which didn't change the results. The number only when up with subsequent tests. I started at 1000 a month ago.

Thank you in advance.

[Teapot1]

Your CYA is 160, you need to drain 2/3 of your pool and refill with fresh water, doing anything else at the moment is a waste of time and money.

[Denniswiseman]

Excessive CYA renders your chlorine ineffective and you have to use more to get the same sanitation
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm
To reduce your CYA you have to do a partial drain and refill
Continuous use of Trichlor/Dichlor will raise your CYA which means you have to raise your chlorine level as well

Test strips are commonly called guess strips
You really need to get yourself a decent FAS/DPD test kit (Taylor K2006c or TF Testkits TF100 in the states) to get accurate results as maintaining an appropiate shock level means testing quite often during the day and not just dumping shock in and thinking "that's it"

Use these common products to balance your pool
Liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite or plain bleach) Liquid chlorine only adds salt
Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to lower pH and TA
Bicarbonate of soda to raise TA
Aeration will raise pH only
Soda ash will raise pH and TA

[JCINAZ]

Thank you for all the help. I drained my pool and refilled it and will be testing it tomorrow.
I have been doing research and understand now how my CYA levels got out of whack. I was using Trichlor tablets heavily. Going forward I am planning on getting my CYA levels up to 10-30PPM then leaving it at that level and adding non-stabilized chlorine in the evenings.

Question:
Should I use non-stabilized shock packets, tablets or jugs of liquid chlorine? The tablets option seems to be the easiest to use.

[Teapot1]

Well JCINAZ, are you going to reply or didnt we give you the answer you wanted to hear?
This situation comes up all to frequently and the only way to cure it is to reduce the CYA by dilution and canging out a large portion of your water. Pool shop not telling you that?

[JCINAZ]

Here are my latest results after draining and refilling:

FC: .08
TC: .08
pH: 8
TA: 128
CH: 151
CYA: 5
Phosphates: 26

I am planning on starting to add some muriatic acid and then testing as I add it over time. I have put some left-over Trichlor tablets in to start to raise the CYA as well, will monitor to keep it under 30, then stop using and switch to non-stabilized chlorine tablets.

Is that a good approach?

Question:
Should I use non-stabilized shock packets, tablets or jugs of liquid chlorine? The tablets option seems to be the easiest to use.

[Teapot1]

Its a good approach, one used by thousands who have understood the issues that CYA can bring when it gets too high.
Non stabilised chlorine will be calcium hyperchlorite so the extra calcium will make your water harder and may give scale issues. Liquid doesnt cause these issues. Adding acid to lower your pH will also lower the TA and bringing that down stabilises the pH a bit more. Aeration raises pH but leaves TA alone so you can adjust the TA to around 60-80 the pH will stay put much better.
Well done so far, youll have control of your pool back now. The extras are just tweaks.

[JCINAZ]

calcium hyperchlorite so the extra calcium will make your water harder and may give scale issues. Liquid doesnt cause these issues.

I already have hard water here, so am considering the liquid chlorine route. That seems to be a pain though, buying dozens of 1ga jugs, and pouring in in every week vs having a floater I put tablets into and leave to slowly release over time.

[Teapot1]

You could go the salt water chlorinator route a few bags of water softener salt dissolved in the pool and the chlorine is produced on site by electrolysis. Top up the salt very occasionally as you only lose it through splah out. Cost is initially high but saves all that shopping. Or a large 5 gallon supply of bleach and a basic dosing pump.

[JCINAZ]

You could go the salt water chlorinator route a few bags of water softener salt dissolved in the pool and the chlorine is produced on site by electrolysis. Top up the salt very occasionally as you only lose it through splah out. Cost is initially high but saves all that shopping. Or a large 5 gallon supply of bleach and a basic dosing pump.

I will not be going that route, I just remodeled the pool and my wallet is empty for years to come. I will try the liquid chorine way and see if I burn some extra calories moving them each month as I need to lose weight.

[Teapot1]

Hahaha, there is that benifit

[JCINAZ]

Here are my latest results after getting my K2006c testkit:

pH: 7.2
TA: 120
CYA: Under 30

I added the muriatic acid and have the left-over Trichlor tablets in the pool.

My latest questions are:
- testing for the chlorine. The kit has a Free & Combined test method. Do I need to test for both Free & Combined or just one of them?
- Is the TA and pH at ok levels?

Thank you!

[Teapot1]

Free and combined chlorine, free is the available active chlorine for sanitising the water. Combined is what happens to chlorine when it combines with a contaminant and produces the familiar swimming pool smell. A healthy sanitised pool does not smell much at all. You will begin testing for both free and combined to learn how your pool reacts. If you measure combined chlorine at more than 0.5ppm then you may have the beginning of an issue, if that rises to 1ppm you have an issue, it could well be the beginning of an algae bloom so jumping on it sooner prevents a green mess which is harder to deal with. You'll get used to your pool and any slight haze as compared to the glass clear water and test for combined chlorine. You shock the pool with more chlorine to oxidise the combined chlorine out of the water.
What is your pool waters calcium hardness?
Without knowing that and the temperature we can only guestimate how your water is. Water in plaster pool has to be balanced more carefully than a vinyl or glass fibre pool as the surface is made of a calcium based compound. Too aggressive and the surface begins to degrade, too hard and you can get rough calcium scale building up. Refer to the calcium scale index or langlier saturation index.
Looking at your results without knowing the hardness of the water and temperature I would say the pH is a bit low. To raise your pH without raising your TA you should aerate the water by using your return jets pointing skyward out of the water to produce splashing and bubbles or an air pump via an airstone or any other means, I use a modified submersible pump to aerate (look on youtube)
That will raise your pH and leave the TA roughly where it is now as too much TA causes pH to rise quickly reducing your TA a bit gives a more stable pH and using a pH a little higher is the easiest way to reduce the aggressive water issue I mentioned earlier. You should without us knowing more at this time in my opinion based on 20 years in the industry raise your pH to 7.5-7.6. If you can get the calcium hardness and temperature with the free chlorine level info we can be a bit more precise.

[Denniswiseman]

Seeing as your pool is round I would suspect an AGP with vinyl so calcium wouldn't be a problem

[Teapot1]

They did at the start round pebbletec?