UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Causes and cures for cloudy swimming pool water.
Milky pool water, white, pink, brown, purple, black cloudy water.
molokoid
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UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 06:23

Problem: As the forum title would suggest, my problem is cloudy water! It's my first year of ownership of a below ground 20,000gallon pool in the UK. Unfortunately we never got the winter cover on and a whole lot of leaf debris was in the pool and it was pretty green. I shocked, scooped leaves off the bottom, vaccummed and brushed until we are where i am today. The water is blue, but cloudy. I have shocked probably 5 times now, used flocculant three times, all to no avail.

FC: currently 4, as i shocked it again last night (and it's midday now).
TC: don't know. I only have Aquacheck and Clearwater test strips
pH: 7.2
TA: 50
CH: don't know. I only have Aquacheck and Clearwater test strips
CYA: is this is the same as the stabilzer pad reading on Aquacheck, then it's around 20-30
My pool: below ground, 20,000 gallon
Pool chemicals: Chlorine... Calcium Hypochlorite Granules for shock and Aliphatic Polyamine as a flocculant. Plus i have multipurpose tablets for the day it gets clear and hopefully can be maintained (Trichloroisocyanuric Acid, Copper Sulphate and Aluminium Sulphate.)
My pump & filter: Hayward sand
Other info: Not yet used this spring / summer!


Any help and guidance appreciated as my continual shock and flocculanting clearly isn't working!


Teapot
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Teapot » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 07:24

Hi, First you really really need a good tester, FAS or DPD + CYA stabiliser, pH, CH and Alk. or an electronic tester. Strips are just rubbish, barely OK for pH as it depends on how good the printers colours are, You get a colour change but they hardly ever match the chart do they so you guess. Strips cannot measure CYA stabiliser and when the packet of strips has been open for about 3 months they tend to be even worse.

If we assume your CYA stabilser is 30ppm then your shock level should be 12ppm That's where you need to get now so the chlorine can continue to burn up the mess. The aluminium sulphate in your multi action tabs is flocculent so resist the urge to add more. Your filter maybe clogged with what you have added so give it a really really good backwash 4-5mins and 1 minute on rinse.
It just takes chlorine and time to clear, the better your filtration and hydraulics are the quicker this will happen but run your filtration 24/7 until the pool clears. Don't use any more flocculent but if you want to speed up the process keep the chlorine up and buy some jollygel (that's from a pool shop not Ann Summers), that's a clarifyer that helps your filter.
If you can supply details of the filter size, plumbing, No of skimmers, returns etc and pump it gives a better picture of your pool.
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 13:12

Thanks for the reply. I'd kind of learnt that strips were not the most reliable. I'll have a search on this forum in a bit for recommended testing kits.

I had been running the pump/filter 24/7 anyway and backwashing every 3-4 days. i'll step up the backwash frequency now then and avoid adding any more flocculant (mine was Aliphatic Polyamine if that makes any difference). I'll get some Jollygel on order (not sure why you say to avoid Ann Summers. Great offers when combined with something called a Rabbit).

I'll get and shock the pool again this evening then.

Confusingly, i posted the same question elsewhere and they advised me my shock treating is a waste of time, i need to 'slam'. I haven't looked into that approach as yet, mainly because i really need to try and get the pool usable before our good weather disappears here in the uk!

I've attached a pic of the pump and sand filter, both are Hayward. There's only 1 skim basket, although there is a second access lid by the pool, but without an inlet nearby and the lid can't be removed (by me without breaking it open!). Hope that helps? And thanks in advance for any advice.
IMG_9233.jpeg
Denniswiseman
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Denniswiseman » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 14:07

Slam (Shock Level and Maintain)is a process and needs to be maintained. That's why you really need to get yourself a decent FAS/DPD test kit (Taylor K2006c or TF Testkits TF100) to get accurate results as maintaining an appropiate shock level means testing quite often during the day
Teapot
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Teapot » Sat 01 Jun, 2019 15:50

molokoid wrote:
Confusingly, i posted the same question elsewhere and they advised me my shock treating is a waste of time, i need to 'slam'. I haven't looked into that approach as yet, mainly because i really need to try and get the pool usable before our good weather disappears here in the uk!

I've attached a pic of the pump and sand filter, both are Hayward. There's only 1 skim basket, although there is a second access lid by the pool, but without an inlet nearby and the lid can't be removed (by me without breaking it open!). Hope that helps? And thanks in advance for any advice.
IMG_9233.jpeg

TFP are hyper critical of everything outside of their "cult" Shocking is a process and not a product just because the stupid pool industry labels quick dissolving products as "shock" no different to smashing up a tablet into smaller pieces which will dissolve quickly. It is the process of raising the free chlorine to a point and holding that level with frequent additions of more chlorine until the chlorine has oxidised everything out of the water.

What diameter is that filter, it looks about 20-22"? and HP of the pump?

It's difficult and frequently costly to import a Taylor test kit and Dave at TFP will not supply outside of the USA. I can supply LaMotte testing equipment and they have an FAS DPD test kit also their popular ColorQ Pro7 if you get stuck.
Denniswiseman
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 03:02

The only problem with using pucks or powder is the change of the CYA Calcium level (better to use liquid chlorine / plain bleach which only puts salt in)
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sun 09 Jun, 2019 06:11

Hi all, just an update on my challenge. I'd performed the last shock about 10 days ago and then turned the filter off for a few days as with a huge increase in backwashing frequency my pool level had dropped to the point the skim inlet was partially taking air in. A slightly related question, is the 2nd red handle on my filter picture for a 2nd route from the pool to the filter (avoiding the skimmer)? As you can see it's locked off, unsure whether this should be open.

Anyway, with the filter turned off for 4-5 days the pool has actually gone clear with sediment, some leaf matter collecting on the bottom. As soon as i've started the filter, backwashed first and then switched to filter so as to vacuum it's kicked it all up again and i have my cloudy pool again.

My purchase of Jolly gel turned up, so i've put a single cube into the pump's skim basket (not the poolside skimmer basket). Assume this is correct.

The test strips (yes, i know, i haven't gotten around to ordering a proper test kit yet, partially as i baulked at spending almost £200 via uk sellers. Is there a mid level non strip testing kit that i could begin with?) showed no chlorine, low ph, ok alkaline. So my, perhaps last question for today (!) is, am i ok to put multifunction chlorine tablets into the poolside skim basket now? or is this not permitted if there is jolly gel in the pump stage skim basket? or will multifunction tablets not be powerful enough to raise chlorine levels to the ok range (and i need to shock to raise it first)?

thanks in advance as always.
Denniswiseman
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 09 Jun, 2019 07:03

molokoid wrote:Hi all, just an update on my challenge. I'd performed the last shock about 10 days ago and then turned the filter off for a few days as with a huge increase in backwashing frequency my pool level had dropped to the point the skim inlet was partially taking air in. A slightly related question, is the 2nd red handle on my filter picture for a 2nd route from the pool to the filter (avoiding the skimmer)? As you can see it's locked off, unsure whether this should be open.

Anyway, with the filter turned off for 4-5 days the pool has actually gone clear with sediment, some leaf matter collecting on the bottom. As soon as i've started the filter, backwashed first and then switched to filter so as to vacuum it's kicked it all up again and i have my cloudy pool again.

My purchase of Jolly gel turned up, so i've put a single cube into the pump's skim basket (not the poolside skimmer basket). Assume this is correct.

The test strips (yes, i know, i haven't gotten around to ordering a proper test kit yet, partially as i baulked at spending almost £200 via uk sellers. Is there a mid level non strip testing kit that i could begin with?) showed no chlorine, low ph, ok alkaline. So my, perhaps last question for today (!) is, am i ok to put multifunction chlorine tablets into the poolside skim basket now? or is this not permitted if there is jolly gel in the pump stage skim basket? or will multifunction tablets not be powerful enough to raise chlorine levels to the ok range (and i need to shock to raise it first)?
thanks in advance as always.

The last adition of shock10 days ago without testing your level is wrong as you have to Shock Level and Maintain at the appropiate level
You really need to keep your pool level up when backwashing
The second valve could be from a main drain or a vacuum point
The sediment should have been vacuumed to waste and not filtered while making sure to keep your water levels up
Jolly gel in the pump basket is correct
A decent FAS/DPD test kit is a must for you to know what you have in your pool and what you need
I'm not familar with other test kits but Teapot has already suggested some
Just putting pucks or tabs in is guessing what's needed and you will be adding more CYA and increasing your shock level requirements
Teapot
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Teapot » Sun 09 Jun, 2019 08:20

Hi, yes because I supply kits to get people testing correctly and not for profit I can knock off about 25% of what you have seen. A bit more for different test kits but the little bit more buys a kit with more reagents so being lower cost overall.
Actually on holiday at the moment so can deal with this when I get back.
Re red valves, have you two skimmers? Or one skimmer and a main drain, or one skimmer and a vacuum point?
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sun 09 Jun, 2019 08:38

Thanks both for the replies. Teapot, apologies, I’d overlooked your previous reply about kits. I’m out and about so will read and respond properly tonight, was just a quick thank you.
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 08:01

Morning! A very hectic week at work for me, so have not been able to give the pool it's attention as yet. But did check last night and the water is now clear, waste and sediment was on the bottom, so i'd vacuumeed up. Unfortunately forgot to do it to waste, so that then needed more pump skimmer cleaning and sand filter backwashing.

@teapot - Do we dm so i can get details of the testing kit or kits you have available?

Fingers crossed the UK weather changes from the continual rain we've been having. It's thankful it has been poor, otherwise the family disappointment in me would be even greater!!
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 16:32

Just a bump on this message as it seems i can't direct message other forum users (yet?). So hoping @teapot picks this up so as to discuss testing kits in uk!

TIA
Denniswiseman
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 16:58

Have you tried clicking the letter icon on the top right of a page
molokoid
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby molokoid » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 17:23

Denniswiseman wrote:Have you tried clicking the letter icon on the top right of a page


Hi, yes, it doesn't allow me access to 'Find a member' and i can't click on Teapot's name in any of the posts.
Teapot
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Re: UK below ground, cloudy water after multiple shocks - newbie owner!

Postby Teapot » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 18:17

Get back to you tomorrow, just got back to the UK and need to sleep

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