bleach when chlorine number is high? help help help

Causes and cures for cloudy swimming pool water.
Milky pool water, white, pink, brown, purple, black cloudy water.
miller36

bleach when chlorine number is high? help help help

Postby miller36 » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 16:45

I finally got the ph down on my tiny 8 foot pool...or tub....or headache...any way....chlorine is still off the charts and pool still cloudy....a little less cloudy but still there and the chlorine still so high....can I use the bleach thing to get rid of the cloudy and does anyone know how much....this is a 600 gallon....will this add to my already high chlorine issue....I bought a better test kit...but still I am more than frustrated.....should I drain??? HELP. HELP HELP


chem geek
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Postby chem geek » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 19:18

Did you measure the other numbers, namely pH, Total Alkalinity (TA), Cyanuric Acid (CYA), and Calcium Hardness (CH)? A high TA and CH and pH can lead to cloudiness as well and the solution to that is not more chlorine. So we really need to know what's in your water and then the solution will be straightforward.

Thanks,
Richard
miller36

just drain it?

Postby miller36 » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 20:53

so chem geek? there are no trouble shooting things you might suggest, given the small size of the pool? I know having all them numbers would be ideal and all I can tell you is the test strip shows over 8.4 chlorine and once I added something to lower ppm went to 120 and ph was at 7.2 ish...I did buy the 3 test drop water one and again, same numbers....I am thinking of just draining it and dealing with the water bill. Short of a miracle, or better yet...HOW DO YOU LOWER CHLORINE LEVEL? and if the cloudy isn't chlorine, should I add an algaecide? Is there really no way to help without the list of numbers you asked for? I just can't tell you how much money this little thing has already cost....so ok....if I do drain....HOW DO I PREVENT CLOUDY WATER??? :):) THANK YOU!!! I think you should get an 800 number...or based on the size of the cloudy water section in the forum you could charge a dollar for each call and you would be rolling in the cash!!! What was I thinking????
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Postby chem geek » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 22:08

Well, we're shooting in the dark, but I can try. What did you mean by "once I added something to lower ppm went to 120 and ph was at 7.2 ish". Does that mean you added some acid and the Total Alkalinity (TA) went down to 120 and the pH down to 7.2? As for chlorine levels, they will drop on their own, especially if this tub is exposed to sunlight since UV rays from the sun break down chlorine -- is it outdoors and exposed to sunlight?

What kind of chlorine have you been adding to this tub? Trichlor tabs/pucks? Dichlor powder/granules? Cal-Hypo granules or pucks? Bleach or chlorinating liquid?

You know, since it is just 600 gallons, it is more like a large hot tub so you could just replace the water as you say, but you'll still need to get yourself a decent test kit. Even though it's around $70 plus shipping, it lasts for two years. If that's just too much for you, then get a standard test kit such as this one which is $25 and tests chlorine, pH and TA. If you start over with your tub water, then these are the only tests you'll need IF you keep careful track of what you add to the tub -- in particular stabilized vs. unstabilized chlorine since you won't have a test kit that measures CYA. Test strips are unreliable and generally not accurate. But if you get the full test kit then we may be able to salvage your water -- if you have a CYA test even if its strips, use it and tell me what it reads (it's better than nothing) because if it's really high, over 80 ppm or so, then a drain/refill of at least part of the water will be needed anyway.

Richard
miller36

chem geek thanks for trying...bare with me....

Postby miller36 » Sat 21 Jul, 2007 07:45

Ok, so I filled the pool 2 weeks ago and all was great, filter running all the time with 1" dual action stablizing chlorine tablets. We are under these huge trees and have lots of debris and pollen. I got complacent and figured the pool was running fine...no worries, did not check filter or chlorine tablet until pool turned cloudy....my fault totally....so I take filter out...black....change filter....add 3 chlorine tablets....still cloudy....shock it....still cloudy.....next day....clean filter again....still cloudy.....shock it again....all levels are at the top of the spectrum....the 3 way test I have shows the pH 7.2 and the Cl is supposed to be yellow and is orange...same thing with Br....orange...which the top number for that is Cl 5 and Br 10....I added pH minus and the pH went down yesterday....that is what I was referring to.....the pool is clearing today...did add 2 1/2 cups bleach and 1/3 cup borax last night....TOTALLY SHOOTING IN THE DARK...I know but have I mentioned how stressed I am without this pool...and now with the pool.....so I hope this helps....really a cell phone rate and you could be very wealthy....looking forward to your help and reply....Anne
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Postby chem geek » Sat 21 Jul, 2007 12:00

Since the lower pH helped clear up some of the cloudiness, I suspect some of it might be too high a Total Alkalinity and Calcium Hardness. But it also sounds like you've got a nascent algae bloom and the chlorine is clearing that. So now I suggest POP -- pool owner patience.

With 600 gallons, it takes a very small amount of chemicals to make big swings -- so only a small amount of Alkalinity Up or baking soda causes a big shift. Say your fill water started out with 20 ppm TA -- then it would only take 11 ounces weight of baking soda to raise the TA to 100. So it's very easy to overdose. I'm guessing that's what happened initially -- that and the chlorine went too low so algea started to develop.

If the chlorine shock you are using is Cal-Hypo, then that adds to Calcium Hardness and can increase cloudiness. If the shock you are using is Dichlor, then that adds to CYA and reduces chlorine's effectiveness. So I suggest you only shock with unscented bleach or chlorinating liquid and in fact only use that as your source of chlorine going forward.

Richard
miller36

algaecide and clarifier? Chem Geek

Postby miller36 » Sat 21 Jul, 2007 14:56

Ok so the shock I used was Calcium Hypochlorite 54.6%. But I did the bleach treatment last night with baking soday....Should I do another bleach application tonight....and how much....do I do that every night with some baking soda....really it would take months of tutoring for me to understand what makes all these things do what they do...and I envy your grasp of it....do you recommend clarifer? Should I put the alagacide in? What about the pH minus? Walmart did sell a 6 way tester and if I get that how often should I test....I want it to be a fun thing and right now I am completely obsessed with it all....I guess with the POP, what should I do...normally I like to be very prepared for things and now that the pool is not so cloudy I am hoping to get it back to clear and keep it that way. Most of my frustration comes from not understanding and the unknown. Again, I really appreciate your help....
Anne
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Postby chem geek » Sat 21 Jul, 2007 18:01

The Walmart 6-way tester is not bad except that the chlorine test isn't as accurate as it could be and it will only measure up to 5 ppm FC, so it's not good when you need to shock a pool and keep a high FC level. The Taylor K-2006 kit is better as is the TF-100 kit at tftestkits here. I would not add anything more to the tub except for chlorine as needed to keep the chlorine level from getting too low. Until you test your water, adding things is just risking making it cloudy again. Though Cal-Hypo for bleach isn't bad, it can make the water cloudy depending on what else is in the water (the other water parameters) so unscented bleach (Clorox Regular) or chlorinating liquid would be better. And Baking Soda increases TA which can also make the water cloudy. Just focus on chlorine until you get a full set of numbers from a good test kit.
miller36

test kit??? chem geek

Postby miller36 » Sun 22 Jul, 2007 17:03

I found another test kit....8 way for 19.99...on line....leisure pool...do you know anything about those....just hoping to find one that isn't 70 dollars..thank you so much....still clear water but want to avoid future problems....anne
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Postby chem geek » Sun 22 Jul, 2007 19:31

I don't know anything about it, but suspect the chlorine test is the DPD color intensity comparison test. The FAS-DPD test is more expensive, but is the ONLY one that will test up to 50 ppm FC and tests very reliably. If you can't afford the better test, then just go with the 5-way you have assuming it tests for CYA (that's important) and for the chlorine test you can dilute it with distilled or bottled water and then multiply the measurement accordingly (i.e. if you dilute with an equal amount of distilled/bottled water, then you multiply the measured chlorine by 2).
miller36

you lost me...

Postby miller36 » Sun 22 Jul, 2007 19:58

well....you lost me with the diluting...I am sorry and embarrassed I am so dense but....I might just get the expensive kit...WILL I KNOW HOW TO USE IT?????????????? thanks...Anne

the water is clear but still really high chlorine, both test and smell....should I not put 1" tab in filter until it drops???
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Re: you lost me...

Postby Backglass » Sun 22 Jul, 2007 20:37

miller36 wrote:the water is clear but still really high chlorine, both test and smell


Not to jump in on chemgeeks excellent advice, but if you SMELL a lot of chlorine, this usually means you don't have enough and need to shock. A test that can tell you FC and TC will tell the tale.

When chlorine eats organic material (algae, pee, etc), it turns into chloramines (CC aka combined chlorine) which sting your eyes and smell like bleach. The answer to chlorine smell and stinging eyes is more chlorine...counter-intuitive I know, but usually the case and new pool owner mistake #1. They have a big bather load, people say they smell chlorine, and so the new pool owner thinks he has too much and doesn't add any at the end of the day. Unbeknownst to him the chlorine is overburdened eating up all the junk and giving off chloramines (and smell). The next day the pool is cloudy, chlorine is -0- and they are scratching there heads wondering where it all went!

Drop the cash for a better test kit so you will know for sure. You do it once and will keep it for years.
===============================
I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com

Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.
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Postby chem geek » Mon 23 Jul, 2007 02:29

By "dilution" I meant taking your pool water sample in a measured container and adding an equal amount of distilled or bottled water to it and mixing. Then test this new diluted mixture. Essentially by dilution, you cut the amount of chlorine in the water by half so that if you then measure it and it measures 4, then you double that number to mean that your pool actually has 8 ppm Free Chlorine. If you didn't dilute first, you'd only know that your pool had 5+ ppm Free Chlorine since the less expensive test kits won't measure above 5 ppm.

The good test kits have enough reagents to last typically for 2 years.
miller36

thank you chem geek and backglass

Postby miller36 » Mon 23 Jul, 2007 08:26

Ok....so the water has been clear for a few days but as I said the chlorine smell is still strong and from my test both strip and 3 way bottle tester the chlorine is off the chart...over 10....it is out in the sun...should it have gotten better by now....will this TF100 kit be easy for me to use....what if I don't get another pool next year....75 is a lot of money for one little 8 foot pool...before all this....I WAS PLANNING ON A BIGGER ONE....so backglass I should still be raising chlorine level even if water is clear...there is a lot of sediment on pool floor that my pool 'VACUUM' doesn't seem to be getting...could be algae or could be from the 30 50 foot white pines surrounding our house....I clean filter every day as it is always yellow and full of crap within 24 hours....and I keep pool covered when not using....should I be running filter 24/7.....thanks so much....ps TF100 is in my shopping basket, I am just so not wanting to spend that much...although I want to know the levels....and fix this....oh brother....Anne
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Re: thank you chem geek and backglass

Postby Backglass » Mon 23 Jul, 2007 14:10

miller36 wrote:so backglass I should still be raising chlorine level even if water is clear


Maybe, maybe not...it all depends on if you have high combined chlorine or not. Let your test kit be your guide. ;)
===============================

I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com



Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.

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