Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

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jjmaddison
Pool Newbie
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Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 29 Oct, 2017 11:14
My Pool: 32 cubic meters, indoor pool

Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby jjmaddison » Sun 29 Oct, 2017 11:27

Hello,

We plan to build a small indoor pool about 32 cubic meters, for family use, especially for little children.

I see a lot of information about disinfection methods, but most of them are either biased or incompetent.
As I read this forum, I see there are people who quite deep into the topic here, so I decided to ask.

Which cleaning method should we choose?

I heard that Chlorine 0.1-0.3ppm is safe and good enough. But I also heard that Ozone is better, and that Ozone is worse, because of СН2O in the water, and also because the ventilation in the room is rather poor, especially during winter.
And I also heard good words about Active Oxygen stations, like Bayrol Pool Relax Oxygen http://www.bayrol.com/fileadmin/content ... lowres.pdf.

Could you please answer if you know things well and, if possible, provide trustworthy object related studies.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. Please let me know if I should move the topic to another subforum.


Denniswiseman
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My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 29 Oct, 2017 15:54

Generally speaking chlorine is the best proven and trouble free option especially with a salt water chlorine generator
0.1-0.3ppm chlorine is no where enough for any pool and subject to Chlorine / CYA Chart with relation to your Pool Levels
jjmaddison
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 29 Oct, 2017 11:14
My Pool: 32 cubic meters, indoor pool

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby jjmaddison » Sun 29 Oct, 2017 23:21

I met a couple of studies about the harm of trichloramine, like this: http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/erj/ ... 0.full.pdf.

There are also studies that find no connection, and there are other studies that do find it.

Also, for indoor pools with low water replacement speed the concentration of trichloramines grows:
https://www.analytic-news.com/press/2015/124.html
Denniswiseman
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 30 Oct, 2017 04:27

Being a family pool should limit your trichloramine production which is removed with a shock level of Chlorine over a couple of days
Usefull post
http://www.troublefreepool.com/archive/ ... -3580.html
I have a covered family pool and keep CYA at about 20 and have had some combined chlorine but never to the point of smelling
I think you are over thinking this as chlorine is an excellant sanitiser but don't use the pucks or granules as they add CYA or calcium
For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm
Teapot
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Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
Location: UK

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby Teapot » Mon 30 Oct, 2017 05:07

Welcome jjmaddison, I typed out a great reply but one glitch and it vanished so here is a shorter one.
It's an indoor pool just for your family. You are obviously concerned with their long term health and well being so I would begin with the whole pool not just the sanitiser, everything needs to work together to produce the best results.
How well the water flows around the pool and how hair, skin and other contaminants are removed has a great bearing on the water quality.
Using the best filtration to remove the contaminants lowers the biological load on the system thus requiring less sanitiser.
The treatment of the water with a sanitiser and the possible disinfection by products that may cause. You posted a link to Bayrol and their ozone/hydrogen peroxide setup. Ozone in a commercial pool is setup with a soak tank so the water has time to allow the ozone to work. In domestic pools it just get passed into the water where the bubbles rise quickly to the top and that's over, some treatment in the pipeline. Ozone can degrade plastic fittings (source Kiwi Norman who installs these systems) also system leaks in the plant room, ozone attacks the respiratory system.
Hydrogen peroxide is a very strong oxidiser but a weak bactericide, it breaks down quickly, it's expensive but it breaks down to water and oxygen. Some suppliers add silver to try and slow it's breakdown.
Chlorine is cheap, its a good oxidiser, a good bactericide, it lasts quite long but the disinfection byproducts are a concern. As stated above the best filtration and flow removes the load on the chlorine so byproducts like chloramines are minimal.
Removing contaminants from the water does allow a much lower level of sanitiser to be present in the water as you stated 0.1-0.3ppm provided you do not have a lot of glass surrounding the pool where the sun could burn up the chlorine? Otherwise you would need some stabiliser in the pool and therefore a slightly higher amount of chlorine. I ran my outdoor pool for several seasons at 0.2ppm but the dosing system has to work hard as I had no stabiliser present (this was an experiment).

I am updating my system for next season so what am I choosing? Advanced Oxidation Process (AOP) or Advanced photocatalytic oxidation (APO) to give it it's other name. Hydroxyl radicals are way more powerful than Ozone or UV and breakdown most organics including chloramines coupled with a tiny amount of chlorine as the residual.

I suggest you look at one of the only holistic approaches to pools. Dryden Aqua and their DAISY system.
https://www.drydenaqua.com/swimming-pools/dryden-daisy

For another way to generate hydroxyl radicals Elecro Quantum
https://www.elecro.co.uk/quantum-photoc ... -treatment

The Dryden DAgen is of particular interest as it's a low salt chlorine generator and hydroxyl radicals with a complete pool management system integration if required (can customise to suit your requirements).
Taking the Dryden holistic approach to your pool will give the best results.

Yep that was the short answer, sorry I did skip over bits but I have to get going this morning, ask any questions you like.
jjmaddison
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 29 Oct, 2017 11:14
My Pool: 32 cubic meters, indoor pool

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby jjmaddison » Tue 31 Oct, 2017 13:25

The pool is indoors, it's inside a concrete foundation and the sun only may fall through windows (which are quite large).

Thanks a lot for answers, looks like Chlorine + UV is the best option?

I'd prefer a well-studied and widely adopted system, to ensure that people who make the pool for us know it and can service it :)
Teapot
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
Location: UK

Re: Chlorine / Ozone / Oxygen

Postby Teapot » Tue 31 Oct, 2017 17:06

Hi jjmadison,
If you decide chlorine and UV then that's your choice but have you looked at the other parts of the jigsaw from the links I posted, filtration and flow, don't forget the low energy setup that I have explained in another thread on this forum.
With the Elecro Quantum that is just a step up from the Elecro UV, the chamber is treated differently with titanium oxide to produce hydroxyl radicals in a far bigger quantity than the UV lamp on it's own. If there is a UV system out where you are it will be similar in design but not as good. it should only require a lamp change every 4 years or so. Nothing too terrifying there. The Dryden aqua is just a salt chlorinator with a salt cell that needs changing every 5-7 years. The small amount of chlorine produced is because the salt level is much lower (50%) so corrosion of metal parts is minimised and it means the water is also producing hydroxyl radicals, if the salt was higher it would produce chlorine easier than splitting the water to produce hydroxyl radicals. Nothing scary there either. It's the current best way, so you should be looking for a pool builder engineer with better industry and water technology knowledge and not bring your pool down to the level of the average pool from last century.

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