Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
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- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Hi guys.
I have a Poolrite ENDURO EN450 sand filter with V2000 multivalve (I think parts now very hard to get or not possible, I'm in Thailand and the local supplier/importer anyway charges sky-high prices). I owned the house and pool for only one year but dymotape on the filter says installed 2010. I will assume sand not changed since then and multiport not taken off. The owner died so I can't ask! The pump is old too but works fine.
I changed a faulty pressure gauge and now it's fine, reading middle of the green bar all the time, except lower when using suction hose for cleaning which is fine. As it never changes I finally backwashed anyway last month but water was only slightly hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. Strange that the filter would not have collected dirt after a year, unless it's all been broken down in the filter?
Now the problem. Recently after vacuuming, dirt comes back through the jets, slightly hazy water and fine dirt visibly settles again in the bottom of the pool quite quickly. Also small particles of black debris (I'm afraid I let dirt accumulate for a while and it became solid black in between some of the floor tiles) which I sweep off the bottom and vacuum up, reappear through the jets.
So I need to ask you, should I be considering that water is maybe not being filtered but just entering the multivalve and going straight back to the pool through a broken spider rubber? Or could the sand just need replacing? Or just throw it all and get a whole new filter and sand (a cost I'd rather avoid if possible)?
Thanks for any help you can give.
I have a Poolrite ENDURO EN450 sand filter with V2000 multivalve (I think parts now very hard to get or not possible, I'm in Thailand and the local supplier/importer anyway charges sky-high prices). I owned the house and pool for only one year but dymotape on the filter says installed 2010. I will assume sand not changed since then and multiport not taken off. The owner died so I can't ask! The pump is old too but works fine.
I changed a faulty pressure gauge and now it's fine, reading middle of the green bar all the time, except lower when using suction hose for cleaning which is fine. As it never changes I finally backwashed anyway last month but water was only slightly hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. Strange that the filter would not have collected dirt after a year, unless it's all been broken down in the filter?
Now the problem. Recently after vacuuming, dirt comes back through the jets, slightly hazy water and fine dirt visibly settles again in the bottom of the pool quite quickly. Also small particles of black debris (I'm afraid I let dirt accumulate for a while and it became solid black in between some of the floor tiles) which I sweep off the bottom and vacuum up, reappear through the jets.
So I need to ask you, should I be considering that water is maybe not being filtered but just entering the multivalve and going straight back to the pool through a broken spider rubber? Or could the sand just need replacing? Or just throw it all and get a whole new filter and sand (a cost I'd rather avoid if possible)?
Thanks for any help you can give.
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- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
- My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
It seems like it's not filtering properly
I suggest first of all do a Deep Clean you shouldn't need to change your sand but add some diatomeaous earth to slightly increase the pressure through the filter also decreasing the flow through the filter would help
If you can source a new spider gasket it would be ideal but not necessary unless you have leaks and can inspect it
I suggest first of all do a Deep Clean you shouldn't need to change your sand but add some diatomeaous earth to slightly increase the pressure through the filter also decreasing the flow through the filter would help
If you can source a new spider gasket it would be ideal but not necessary unless you have leaks and can inspect it
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- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
- My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
- Location: UK
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
I am reading that you backwashed and the water was hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. How long did you continue the backwash? It may well takes 2-3 minutes for the sand bed to expand enough to release the dirt and a couple of minutes more to actually remove the dirt.
The sand is the unknown, and could be sticky with bacterial biofilm. Did you also perform the rinse cycle before going back into filter?
On any pool the cleaning of the sand needs to be performed 1 per season, not backwash, proper clean with a hose and agitation.
One of my customers freaked when we backwashed his filter for almost 9 minutes because like you he saw the water run clear after a few seconds.
The sand is the unknown, and could be sticky with bacterial biofilm. Did you also perform the rinse cycle before going back into filter?
On any pool the cleaning of the sand needs to be performed 1 per season, not backwash, proper clean with a hose and agitation.
One of my customers freaked when we backwashed his filter for almost 9 minutes because like you he saw the water run clear after a few seconds.
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Denniswiseman wrote:It seems like it's not filtering properly
I suggest first of all do a Deep Clean you shouldn't need to change your sand but add some diatomeaous earth to slightly increase the pressure through the filter also decreasing the flow through the filter would help
If you can source a new spider gasket it would be ideal but not necessary unless you have leaks and can inspect it
Thanks, sounds I'd love to try a deep clean but my filter is deep inside a pumproom with electrics on the wall. I can't move it outside either due to the location of the pump room, steps, etc. unless I pay a pool company to do the job. If it came to that I think I'd just replace the filter and sand completely, pay for the kit with labour cost included in the price.
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Teapot wrote:I am reading that you backwashed and the water was hazy for around 5 seconds then clear. How long did you continue the backwash? It may well takes 2-3 minutes for the sand bed to expand enough to release the dirt and a couple of minutes more to actually remove the dirt.
The sand is the unknown, and could be sticky with bacterial biofilm. Did you also perform the rinse cycle before going back into filter?
On any pool the cleaning of the sand needs to be performed 1 per season, not backwash, proper clean with a hose and agitation.
One of my customers freaked when we backwashed his filter for almost 9 minutes because like you he saw the water run clear after a few seconds.
Thanks teapot, that must be my first port of call. I didn't know that backwashing could go on so long, I'd heard it shouldn't be more than 2-3 minutes, but my filter might be in extreme need I guess.
The sand cleaning, 'deep clean' as mentioned by denniswiseman will be very difficult, I don't think it's feasible in my filter's location.
-
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Tue 06 Sep, 2011 05:48
- My Pool: 10k inground fibreglass, Telescopic Cover, Hayward Powerline pump, Quality filter with glass media, 27kw output heat pump, K-2006C test kit
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
I didn't remove my filter when deep cleaning. I just set the MPV to waste and let the dirty water flow out through the MPV to waste. That's if you have a gravity waste system in your pump room
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- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
- My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
- Location: UK
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
I think Cameljockey, you'll need to find a way to be able to deep clean your filter, follow Dennis's advice but it's something you need to do every season to keep your pool healthy.
It's fine for filters to grab all the the horrible stuff out of your pool but you must be able to eject that muck from the filter. Domestic filters are not great at backwashing, partly because the setup is poor to start with.
It's fine for filters to grab all the the horrible stuff out of your pool but you must be able to eject that muck from the filter. Domestic filters are not great at backwashing, partly because the setup is poor to start with.
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Denniswiseman wrote:I didn't remove my filter when deep cleaning. I just set the MPV to waste and let the dirty water flow out through the MPV to waste. That's if you have a gravity waste system in your pump room
Ah! I'll try and see if the waste flows, I think it should, thank you. First I'll need to order and wait for a new o-ring for the multivalve in case the old one is shot.
-
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
- My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
- Location: UK
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
It should be OK to take the top off the multiport and look at the gasket, then decide if its worn/damaged. Spot of glue at the intersections and some silicon grease to make it move nicely
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Teapot wrote:It should be OK to take the top off the multiport and look at the gasket, then decide if its worn/damaged. Spot of glue at the intersections and some silicon grease to make it move nicely
Teapot, after I undo the six screws and lift off the multiport, even if the spider rubber is OK or can be repaired, will it definitely go back on, or is there a gasket which might need replacing? If I need a replacement on hand I will need to order/pay for/import it first. And even the spider gasket, because you can't get it in Thailand. I only operate the handle clockwise and am careful to make sure it's in the right pace before dropping it, and don't drag it around, but I have no idea how the Thai workers/pool cleaning team operated it for 6 years before I had the pool.
I gave a 10 minute backwash today followed by a 1 minute rinse, then another 2 minute/30 second set, the water was clear all the way through. So seems I need to open it, starting with top off the multiport and checking if the spider looks OK, and if so take the whole multivalve off and deep cleaning the sand, which will be tricky. Wish me luck, the last thing I can do is spend $400 on a new filter and sand.
Thanks for the help so far.
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Denniswiseman wrote:I didn't remove my filter when deep cleaning. I just set the MPV to waste and let the dirty water flow out through the MPV to waste. That's if you have a gravity waste system in your pump room
Thanks again Dennis. This has confused me a bit. To put a water hose down in the filter sand to deep clean I need to remove the Multiport, so how can I use the waste pipe?
-
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:52
- My Pool: 12 x 24 (45m3) liner pool, Triton TR60 filter with AFM glass media (Activate) and variable speed pump running 0.08HP
- Location: UK
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Ah, you have one of those horrible top mounted filters, I think Dennis and I were imagining a side mounted filter.
-
- Pool Enthusiast
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 23:48
- My Pool: 55,000 litre, rectangular ceramic tile-lined, salt water, 10 years old.
10x4 metres, one 10m. side infinity edge opposite the four pool jets.
Emaux SSC25-T chlorinator
Emaux SPH150 1.5 HP pump
Emaux CF150 cartridge filter
No aeration other than very gentle trickle over the 10m long infinity edge.
Re: Old filter, old sand, broken spider valve?
Teapot wrote:Ah, you have one of those horrible top mounted filters, I think Dennis and I were imagining a side mounted filter.
Ah OK. Well, I'll have to try, maybe hold a second short hose in the top of the filter, prime it, drop it into the waste pipe and let gravity take the scummy top of the water away while I'm washing. Jees....
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