'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

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Henry_R
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri 20 Mar, 2009 21:41
My Pool: HOA Community Swimming pool built approx. 1971.
In-Ground, Plaster 34x18 3.5-6' deep, Sta-rite P2R A5D-120L pump, A.O. Smith centurion 1HP (uprated 1.25HP) motor,Hayward S244S filter(new 2011), Rainbow Lifegard Chlorine/Bomine feeder; new replastered June 2010
Location: Houston, Texas USA

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby Henry_R » Sun 14 Aug, 2011 13:49

Hi all. I'm still working with my HOA and our community pool. They finally saw the light and this morning drained down to 1 foot of water in the shallow end and are in the process of refilling. Hopefully this will reduce the CYA which the pool stores read as high as 160 and low as "94". These tests were done by several different people the "94" reading done by the person at a store we've gone to before where the test has been performed the most. How can one get a specific reading of 94 on a test with so sharp a scale? I know they can't. We did get a refill kit of the Leslie Pool DPD test kit, btw. Someone finally realised they need to start doing the tests themselves.

Anyway, upon draining we've noticed an odd spider web pattern in the plaster. It kinda looks like a piece of glass when you hit it just right and it creates a spiderweb. It's just on the surface to my touch. It's not actually pitted to these patterns. I've uploaded a couple of photos of this. Any idea why this has occured?
High CYA perhaps? Any other reasons? Steel brush? Could the pool man who burned us have done something to make the plaster do this?

Lastly, there is a small hole near the top of the plaster in a corner. I uploaded a photo of that too. Is this a concern that water could get in behind it and loosen the plaster? None of the other corners have this issue.
I looked. We have a warranty on the plaster if it is so as least it's covered.

Also, since we're *still* using cal-hypo 73%. Is there a good procedure to add this to the pool as we're refilling?
I've tried to convince the powers that be to try 6% chlorine bleach for now and I almost got through, but it's difficult.
Attachments
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Small hole? View is from top down.
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spider web pattern on plaster
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spiderweb pattern on plaster
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Money talks!? All it ever says to me is "goodbye!".
czechmate
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat 16 May, 2009 09:20
My Pool: 16 x 32 gunite21000 gal., Diamond Brite Blue, Swimquip XL pump, DE36
Location: Texas

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby czechmate » Mon 15 Aug, 2011 19:37

Your plaster shows hairline cracking as well as progressed pitting of plaster due to low calcite saturation.
The hairline probably was there a long time but is being enhanced by loss of calcium to water.
I may be wrong, but it it would make sense.
Henry_R
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri 20 Mar, 2009 21:41
My Pool: HOA Community Swimming pool built approx. 1971.
In-Ground, Plaster 34x18 3.5-6' deep, Sta-rite P2R A5D-120L pump, A.O. Smith centurion 1HP (uprated 1.25HP) motor,Hayward S244S filter(new 2011), Rainbow Lifegard Chlorine/Bomine feeder; new replastered June 2010
Location: Houston, Texas USA

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby Henry_R » Mon 15 Aug, 2011 20:55

czechmate wrote:Your plaster shows hairline cracking as well as progressed pitting of plaster due to low calcite saturation. The hairline probably was there a long time but is being enhanced by loss of calcium to water. I may be wrong, but it it would make sense.
What is low calcite saturation is caused by?
Low calcium in the water? pH imbalance? High CYA? Is it something that our pool person could/should have prevented?

Are the hairline cracks normal or an issue we need to talk to the plasterer about?
This plaster is only one year and 2 months old. It was plastered about 3rd week of June last year.
I think it has a warranty. The 'cracks' don't feel like cracks. They must be literally hairline since I
cannot detect them by touch.
Money talks!? All it ever says to me is "goodbye!".
czechmate
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat 16 May, 2009 09:20
My Pool: 16 x 32 gunite21000 gal., Diamond Brite Blue, Swimquip XL pump, DE36
Location: Texas

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby czechmate » Mon 15 Aug, 2011 23:09

CSI or calcite saturation index is probably the most ignored and underestimated condition of the pool water by ordinary pool owner anywhere.
Most pool owners are terified by algae bloom, that may cost 200 bucks and few days of dilligent brushing, yet ignorant to their CSI value which can cost damage extending to 3-6 thousand bucks.
During the winter months, when our interest about the pool condition slacks off, bad CSI value can seriously damage our plaster.
It is sometimes happenning slowly and undetected since often pool water is nice, clear and blue. Than in the spring we notice edges on steps gouged off and pitted surface on the walls and bottom.
Once the surface becomes pitted, algae has its sanctuary and if it ever shows up it is usually a loosing battle for most people.
You can look up CSI factor in the Pool Calculator, where you can keep a track of your own saturation index.
Hair line cracks form usually right after fresh plaster is finished. It all depends on temperature, sun, wind and how fast you are able to safely fill the pool. Marcite is likely the most vulnerable and will show them the most.
Henry_R
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri 20 Mar, 2009 21:41
My Pool: HOA Community Swimming pool built approx. 1971.
In-Ground, Plaster 34x18 3.5-6' deep, Sta-rite P2R A5D-120L pump, A.O. Smith centurion 1HP (uprated 1.25HP) motor,Hayward S244S filter(new 2011), Rainbow Lifegard Chlorine/Bomine feeder; new replastered June 2010
Location: Houston, Texas USA

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby Henry_R » Tue 16 Aug, 2011 08:31

czechmate wrote:CSI or calcite saturation index is probably the most ignored and underestimated condition of the pool water by ordinary pool owner anywhere.
Most pool owners are terified by algae bloom, that may cost 200 bucks and few days of dilligent brushing, yet ignorant to their CSI value which can cost damage extending to 3-6 thousand bucks.
During the winter months, when our interest about the pool condition slacks off, bad CSI value can seriously damage our plaster.
It is sometimes happenning slowly and undetected since often pool water is nice, clear and blue. Than in the spring we notice edges on steps gouged off and pitted surface on the walls and bottom.
Once the surface becomes pitted, algae has its sanctuary and if it ever shows up it is usually a loosing battle for most people.
You can look up CSI factor in the Pool Calculator, where you can keep a track of your own saturation index.
Hair line cracks form usually right after fresh plaster is finished. It all depends on temperature, sun, wind and how fast you are able to safely fill the pool. Marcite is likely the most vulnerable and will show them the most.
OK. This is good information. Now, remember this is a community swimming pool which until the second week of July had a supposedly competent pool man servicing it. His being fired over three algae blooms in 8 weeks and no-return phone calls during the last one is how I am involved in this as a volunteer to my HOA community. The only experience I have is by doing and reading about how, btw. In 2009 whilst our HOA was waiting for enough funds to replaster I maintained the pool by keeping it from going green so we wouldn't be fined for an unsanitary pool. If there was not plaster dust in the water you could have swam in it.

Is the CSI value something he should have been keeping track of as a normal part of his duty? ie is it *normally* tested for by a majority of pool servicers who have a CPO? The steps are badly pitted on the edges. Enough that one could be scratched by it, but that's how those stairs have always been so I thought it was normal.

Over the winter the pool was clear and he had no problems with algae (of course not it was very cold last winter) and I believe he was using trichlor tabs and minimal powdered shock. I remember him telling me that he had an easy time with the pool over the winter and that it held chlorine extremely well and better than some other pools he serviced.

What do you make of the hole in the first photo I posted above? It is at the top-corner of the plaster.
It looks like a spot the plasterers missed. That photo is from the top looking over the rim to the corner.
Money talks!? All it ever says to me is "goodbye!".
allclearpools
Pool Enthusiast
Pool Enthusiast
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon 28 Nov, 2011 16:47
Location: Rockwall, TX

'spider web' pattern on plaster and small hole in corner

Postby allclearpools » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 10:51

The pit in the plaster can be fixed a 2 part epoxy like Pool Putty. The discoloration and spider webs will always show up over time as the plaster wears. The discolorations will worsen also. Most commercial pools suffer too high of a chlorine level. Sometimes though because facilities ignore the proper bather load for the pool it is a necessary evil. The large pools are usually more forgiving but we serviced one that was 100,000 gallons and the pool was constantly bombarded in the summer. Plus the pool was built in the 50's or early 60's so it had a pretty good leak that they cared less to fix also. My point is that each pool is different and you have to treat them accordingly.
yes9900

Pool Plaster Repair

Postby yes9900 » Wed 14 Mar, 2012 18:46

Ok Im going to just rant for a few moments about what i know about pools and pool plaster repairs

When you drain a pool you're going to dry out the plaster. And furthermore the plaster acts like your skin on your body. So that being said. Watch your PH and Chlorine type, the lower of each the better (up to 7.0PH).

Now since you said this is a commercial property I know instantly that youre surely running that pool as little as possible. What does that mean when you have a large, commercial, high bather load pool? Chemical Etching!!!! These chems sit in the bottom of the pool like a glob of microscopic razor blades. So less circulation of your high potenancy chlorine (Cal Hypo) causes your plaster to freak the heck out. So now it may be a little too late judging by the "etching" noted on the pics. But you can help minimize the pain.

Starting with your chlorine, as it is the least of your problems, your actual problems are;

In Order
Low Circulation
High Chemicals
High Bather Load
Draining the Pool

Low Circ: Move the chemicals around! Even if its 3 times a day for 3 hours each (or more !)
High Chems: High amounts of low cost chems will end up costing you more than its worth in savings. Just use liquid. But if you absolutely have to use cal hypo then mix it in a big 25-50lb bucket and adminiter it throughout the pool evenly, near the returns ;)
High Bather Load: Require people to rinse off before use, I know I am dreaming, but in a perfect world this is how it should go down.
Draining the Pool: Expect cracks and lines when draining a pool. Its natural. And bad for the plaster. If you are super worried and care, then when draining keep the plaster wet. Don't let it get dry. Ever!!!! Good luck lol.

Oh and I am a third generation pool boy, so I and my family have serviced millions of pools.....Or at least millions of gallons ;)

Sacramento area Pool Plaster Repair - http://www.h20freedom.com/pool-plaster-repair/

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