A little help with your algea.

Algae problems in swimming pool water.
Green (cloudy) water or slimy pool walls.
Black algae. Mustard algae. Pink or white pool mold.
Guest

A little help with your algea.

Postby Guest » Sat 12 Aug, 2006 19:18

Hello all.
My name is Dan and I do work at a pool store. I have been reading your posts and they all pertain to what I deal with every day. You all seem to be chlorine users for the most part so I will help you. Here's a little background-
Chlorine- Chlorine IS A GAS. It is NOT STABLE. Chlorine is affected by heat and sunlight. In 80+degree weather and sunlight chlorine has a half life of 30 minutes. It is possible to go from 3ppm of chlorine (sanitary) to 0 ppm in a matter of hours. You need to administer two types of chlorine-
You need to have to continually add chlorine in 1 form or another. This would be using a chlorinator (I dont' recommend), a floater (I HIGHLY don't recommend), or sticks in the skimmer (I recommend). If you run your pump all day BioGaurd Smart sticks are the best- they only dissolve when water runs over them. They also have borate- helps reduce algea growth. Use a stick if you run it all day. I don't recommend floaters because they get stuck on 1 side and bleach your liner. In a blow up pool 1 puck or tab treats 10k gallons- 2x your pool volume. One stick treats 5-10k gallons.
SHOCK!- You need to shock it once a week. Period. Read the back for how much.
Calcium vs lithium vs stablilized?- you need a Cynaric acid of at least 30ppm- use stablized till there or more. Just don't get your cynairic over 150ppm or you gotta drain it. BioGaurd burnout is too expensive and is week. We use Pool Life calcium hypochlorate. 68% free chlorine. Works great.
Algicide- Common scenario- My pool is green! I'll ad a whole bottle of algicide. Bad idea. It's not going to kill it. Algicide is a wetting agent that HELPS prevent algea. CHLORINE & BAQUACIL SHOCK KILL ALGEA. (jsut don't mix baquacil and chlorine...big mess). Pools only need a couple ounces of algicide a week. NOT BOTTLES.
Water balance: Very important. Here's some guidlines-
Ph- 7.4-7.6 is my pick
Free chlorine and total chlorine- 1-3ppm
Alk- Depends on your cynaric which blocks the ability to read alk. 80-120 on a pool with low cynuaric is is good. If your cyn. is 100 you will need an alk around 170ppm.
Calcium- also depends on saturation index- 100-200 is good. No matter WHAT your pool guy says- don't add calcium if your pool is cloudy, it doesn't help.
Cynauric- 30-100

Once your pool is clear-
We found an awesome product called endure- the leading ingredient is Sodium TetraBorate which is used in eye wash and contact lense solutions.
It makes it so algea can't process C02. So it can't GROW! Ta-da! It will NOT clear up a green pool. It needs to be clear. It provides stunning water clarity. We use it on all sanitizers. You still need to maintain your sanitizer levels! This product also doesn't get consumed! Good for the life of the water. WIth rain it DOES dilute. Toping up is required every couple months. It will definitly save you time and in the long run money. The store I work at has sold more than anyone in the US. Our customers love it. They won't shut up about it. I get 0 commision, I'm only doing this to make your life easier cause I hate seeing people waste time and money.

My user SN will be TheGreatMunizzle if I get my stupid conf. e-mail. I'm willing to help anyone.


me

Re: A little help with your algea.

Postby me » Sat 12 Aug, 2006 19:36

Anonymous wrote:You need to administer two types of chlorine-

No you don't. Just pick any unstabilized chlorine.

Anonymous wrote:or sticks in the skimmer (I recommend).

Trichlor is very acidic and can damage equipment if left in the skimmer.


Anonymous wrote:If you run your pump all day BioGaurd Smart sticks are the best- they only dissolve when water runs over them. They also have borate- helps reduce algea growth.


BioGuard products are possibly the worse pool products you can buy, they add all sorts of useless crap in their products. The Smart Sticks are 96.5% trichlor. No borax in that product.

Anonymous wrote:SHOCK!- You need to shock it once a week. Period. Read the back for how much.


No you don't. Not if you maintain an appropriate level of sanitizer at all times.

Anonymous wrote:Pools only need a couple ounces of algicide a week. NOT BOTTLES.


No they don't. Not if you maintain an appropriate level of sanitizer at all times.


Anonymous wrote:Water balance: Very important. Here's some guidlines-
Ph- 7.4-7.6 is my pick


The range is from 7.2 to 8.0, depending on your situation you may prefer, or have to use a lower pH.

Anonymous wrote:Free chlorine and total chlorine- 1-3ppm

This ultimately depends on your CYA level. The higher the CYA the more FC you need to maintain proper sanitation.

Anonymous wrote:Alk- Depends on your cynaric which blocks the ability to read alk. 80-120 on a pool with low cynuaric is is good. If your cyn. is 100 you will need an alk around 170ppm.


This is utter nonsense. Cyanuric acid does not inhibit the reading of bicarbonates in the sample water.

Anonymous wrote:We found an awesome product called endure- the leading ingredient is Sodium TetraBorate which is used in eye wash and contact lense solutions.


Ummm... Sodium tetraborate is also called . . . borax. Available at a Walmart near you.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 09:40

You have effectivel managed to tell people how to run a crappy pool "me". People come in because people like you tell them how to run a pool. What are you using to test water? We use alex millenium and rough the edges a little bit.

- If you were adding just 1 type of chlorine you would constantly be chasing it. If you use sticks it is MUCH easier to maintain a proper chlorine level. If you just add chlorine grandular ever day it is a waste of your time. If you use both you are much less likely to have a green pool. simple. Why do you think all these people have green? THERE'S NO CHLORINE IN THEIR POOL CAUSE THEY FOLLOW YOUR RULES THAT DON'T WORK.

- Trichloride can ruin your skimmer basket. It will still last over 5+ years and a new basket is like 10 dollars- and you'll always have SOME chlorine in your pool to give you some insurance.

-Shock- if you're maintaining your chlorine at the APPROPRIATE level which 99% of chlorine user's can't do 24 hours a day they do need to shock it. Again- they follow your rules and get green pools.

-Algicide: I have encountered 5 poeple this year that don't use algicide. All 5 have needed new liners cause like you they just use chlorine! Over time their water becomes very acidic. Their PH's were below 3, their heaters were completely dissolved in their pools. Why use algicide? I just buy my chlorine at the hardware store and dump it in and it looks great. So does white vinegar at the grocery store. These people hadn't had their water tested in as low as 5 months! 5months they went from a ph of 7-3. One lady came in and got her water checked in may and balanced her pool. In july she came in and said her kids had developed bilsters from head to toe cause her water was so acidic. Why use algicide? Hospital bills and liners are cheaper aren't they?

-You don't need more chlorine for more CYN. I have never heard that till I was on this website. CYN doesn't affect the sanitization of a pool. Not that I've ever heard. 1-3ppm. Anymore and you're just taking years off of your liner. I've even seen people on here saying 25ppm of chlrorine if your CYN is 100. That is BS.

As for CYN in the water affecting the reading of PH. It DOES. When you test water in a machine and a computer program there is an adjusted total alkalinity. Your test strips can't tell you what to do.

- As for the Borax- I don't know what it's in it. But If it is the SAME exact thing as Endure it does work very well.

I am no pool master but everything I've said IS ture. "Me" has simply taken the route I see people take everyday. THey cheap out and just buy chlorine. You've either got WAY too much chlorine or not enough. Poeple take YOUR route and then come in about ready to take their pools down because they run through tons of equipment and liners.
rj

never ending algae

Postby rj » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 19:14

Hi Dan.. you sound like you know what you are talking about.. I am having an awful time and if you could take a look at my blog on never ending algae and let me know your thoughts that would be great.. I am about to loose my mind about this problem..here is an excerpt

have tested the water now 4 times in 4 days.. same results..checks the stabilizer, chlorine, copper, ph, alkalinity, ..something acid.. cyneratic? every single level is fine.. chlorine is a bit high..but after 4 gallons of shock, 2 containers of algaecide and 2 bottled of granular shock.. not a surprise! I added entire bottle of clarifier mixed with water.. let the filter run for 3 hours..turned it off for 3.. vacumed the pool, backwashed it 3 times today....it made a small difference but 6 hrs later.. pool is still green and cloudy! ..

i actually dove in the pool today to check out the main drain which I cannot see due to density of green and cloudiness.. there were a number of acorns which had fallen in but nothing it hasn't seen before.. picked up the pieces.. just dumped in another gallon of shock and finished off the clarifier..filter is running again.. oddly enough the water was green and cloudy all the way down until about 1 foot from the bottom (8feet)..it was very clear??

I asked the pool store guy about putting in something to lower the ph and he did not recommed that? I'm afraid of making it worse.. HELP!! this is driving me crazy ..not to mention I have 120 people coming to my house on Friday for a big family party!
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:10

Anonymous wrote:You have effectivel managed to tell people how to run a crappy pool "me". People come in because people like you tell them how to run a pool. What are you using to test water? We use alex millenium and rough the edges a little bit.


For chlorine I use Taylor FAS-DPD titration with all my clients, as you know this is accurate to 0.2 ppm for chlorine, both FC and CC and goes to 50 ppm. The other tests are all done with Taylor reagents, all colorimetric tests are done using a 5000k color temperature natural light source from Visual Plus and I whip out my magnetic stirrer and beakers for the titration tests. This is all done at the customers premises with them watching and with me explaining every step. I also check salt/copper levels if appropriate and ORP level with Oakton lab equipment.

Feel free to explain how CYA affects ORP by the way.

Titration tests do not require a computer and colorimetric tests require a constant light source. Period.

I show them the quantity of chlorine required for 1 ppm increase for their pool volume and give them the corresponding measuring cup (I carry many different sizes). I give them a DPD test kit and show them how to read pH, the chlorine level and how much chlorine to add: If they want 4 ppm and read 1 ppm then add 3 measuring cups (each cup of course represents 1 ppm). No more, no less.

My latest customer has saved over $500 in chlorine and chemical usage this year, see, she was badly informed by a pool store, never shown the right amount of chlorine to add and never sold stabilizer.

It's in the pool store's interest to sell chlorine. And lots of chemicals. They have huge overhead, I don't.

See, you only need about six products to balance and maintain pool water: sodium bisulfate (pH-) , soda ash (pH+), sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), calcium chloride, CYA and unstabilized chlorine (bleach or calcium hypochlorite). The rest, all your miracle products, Endure, Optimizer, 4-in-1 tablets, is useless crap. You can buy bleach and baking soda at the grocery store. And some folks just use borax as ph+ and forget about the calcium altogether.

For my customers I set the CYA at 30 to 40 ppm and it never increases, so theres no chance of saturating the water with CYA. If the customer reads any CC then they are told to add 10x the CC reading. The CYA insures that they are not losing chlorine to UV so they're not constantly adding chlorine every day.

By paying attention to the CC there is never a reason to shock. Didn't anyone tell you: Shocking a pool is like rebooting a computer, you normally don't need to do it.

I have a full time job and this pool thing is just something I do for fun. I don't own a pool store and my 'job' is not to sell chemicals but to train my customers.

Anonymous wrote:- If you were adding just 1 type of chlorine you would constantly be chasing it.


False. That's why we use CYA. Unstabilized chlorine is all you need. You use it to maintain a residual. You use the same chlorine to shock when you open the pool.

Anonymous wrote:If you use sticks it is MUCH easier to maintain a proper chlorine level. If you just add chlorine grandular ever day it is a waste of your time. If you use both you are much less likely to have a green pool. simple. Why do you think all these people have green?


Umm no. You don't add chlorine every day as you say, remember, there's CYA in the water. I hope you are informing your customers about the dangers of mixing these two types of chlorine by the way.

How much CYA are you adding to your pool with those sticks?

Anonymous wrote:THERE'S NO CHLORINE IN THEIR POOL CAUSE THEY FOLLOW YOUR RULES THAT DON'T WORK.


Umm no. They know how to read the chorine level and add the right amount every time. This is not rocket science. The CYA holds the residual.

Anonymous wrote:- Trichloride can ruin your skimmer basket. It will still last over 5+ years and a new basket is like 10 dollars- and you'll always have SOME chlorine in your pool to give you some insurance.


Skimmer basket _and_equipment_. Remember that the trichlor in the skimmer is still dissolving when the pump is off, contrary to what Bioguard says. That skimmer has an exceedingly high level of chlorine and very low pH (what's the pH of trichlor again?), turning on the pump pulls all that stuff in. Yay! It's a shock treatment for the pool and equipment.

Again I must ask you how much CYA are you adding with trichlor.

Anonymous wrote:-Shock- if you're maintaining your chlorine at the APPROPRIATE level which 99% of chlorine user's can't do 24 hours a day they do need to shock it. Again- they follow your rules and get green pools.


No, the secret is training and knowledge. Once they know they do and they do quite well, and they save money by not buying two types of chlorine, not buying algicide, not buying Endure, Optimizer and other crap.

Anonymous wrote:-Algicide: I have encountered 5 poeple this year that don't use algicide. All 5 have needed new liners cause like you they just use chlorine!


Ask them how much chlorine they were adding then show them what they needed to add. You'll see a big difference.

Anonymous wrote:Over time their water becomes very acidic. Their PH's were below 3, their heaters were completely dissolved in their pools.


Again it boils down to proper training. Show them how to test the pH every week. It's easy. What's the pH of trichlor again? And what's the pH of calcium hypochlorite?

Anonymous wrote:-You don't need more chlorine for more CYN. I have never heard that till I was on this website. CYN doesn't affect the sanitization of a pool.


Oh Google that one please. It's documented everywhere that CYA negatively affects the effectiveness of chlorine. I can quote many many sources but I won't because this is basic knowledge. Even the industry is starting to post warnings about the potential pitfalls of using too much trichlor. Here's something from our friends at Arch/HTH for example, there are countless others.

http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/HTH/Po ... zation.htm

Anonymous wrote:As for CYN in the water affecting the reading of PH. It DOES. When you test water in a machine and a computer program there is an adjusted total alkalinity. Your test strips can't tell you what to do.


Now you're mixing up three concepts, CYA, pH and alkalinity. There is a correction factor for carbonate alkalinity suggested by Taylor Tech for water having a pH outside the norm or high CYA. But this factor introduces only a minor correction to TA.

Anonymous wrote:- As for the Borax- I don't know what it's in it. But If it is the SAME exact thing as Endure it does work very well.


I like to be informed and to inform my clients as to what exactly they are putting in their pools. I am not in the pool "business" and I do not sell chemicals. But you of all people should know what you are selling.

Anonymous wrote:I am no pool master but everything I've said IS ture. "Me" has simply taken the route I see people take everyday. THey cheap out and just buy chlorine. You've either got WAY too much chlorine or not enough. Poeple take YOUR route and then come in about ready to take their pools down because they run through tons of equipment and liners.


Well, you probably think trichlor is 90% chlorine because it says so on the label. See, the secret is training and knowledge, I'm trying to steer people away from the pool store and the bad advice. Maintaining a pool is not rocket science. But yes, it boils down to proper testing and . . . just buying chlorine.
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:26

Anonymous wrote:You have effectivel managed to tell people how to run a crappy pool "me". People come in because people like you tell them how to run a pool. What are you using to test water? We use alex millenium and rough the edges a little bit.


For chlorine I use Taylor FAS-DPD titration with all my clients, as you know this is accurate to 0.2 ppm for chlorine, both FC and CC and goes to 50 ppm. The other tests are all done with Taylor reagents, all colorimetric tests are done using a 5000k color temperature natural light source from Visual Plus and I whip out my magnetic stirrer and beakers for the titration tests. This is all done at the customers premises with them watching and with me explaining every step. I also check salt/copper levels if appropriate and ORP level with Oakton lab equipment.

Feel free to explain how CYA affects ORP by the way.

Titration tests do not require a computer and colorimetric tests require a constant light source. Period.

I show them the quantity of chlorine required for 1 ppm increase for their pool volume and give them the corresponding measuring cup (I carry many different sizes). I give them a DPD test kit and show them how to read pH, the chlorine level and how much chlorine to add: If they want 4 ppm and read 1 ppm then add 3 measuring cups (each cup of course represents 1 ppm). No more, no less.

My latest customer has saved over $500 in chlorine and chemical usage this year, see, she was badly informed by a pool store, never shown the right amount of chlorine to add and never sold stabilizer.

It's in the pool store's interest to sell chlorine. And lots of chemicals. They have huge overhead, I don't.

See, you only need about six products to balance and maintain pool water: sodium bisulfate (pH-) , soda ash (pH+), sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), calcium chloride, CYA and unstabilized chlorine (bleach or calcium hypochlorite). The rest, all your miracle products, Endure, Optimizer, 4-in-1 tablets, is useless crap. You can buy bleach and baking soda at the grocery store. And some folks just use borax as ph+ and forget about the calcium altogether.

For my customers I set the CYA at 30 to 40 ppm and it never increases, so theres no chance of saturating the water with CYA. If the customer reads any CC then they are told to add 10x the CC reading. The CYA insures that they are not losing chlorine to UV so they're not constantly adding chlorine every day.

By paying attention to the CC there is never a reason to shock. Didn't anyone tell you: Shocking a pool is like rebooting a computer, you normally don't need to do it.

I have a full time job and this pool thing is just something I do for fun. I don't own a pool store and my 'job' is not to sell chemicals but to train my customers.
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:27

Anonymous wrote:- If you were adding just 1 type of chlorine you would constantly be chasing it.


False. That's why we use CYA. Unstabilized chlorine is all you need. You use it to maintain a residual. You use the same chlorine to shock when you open the pool.

Anonymous wrote:If you use sticks it is MUCH easier to maintain a proper chlorine level. If you just add chlorine grandular ever day it is a waste of your time. If you use both you are much less likely to have a green pool. simple. Why do you think all these people have green?


Umm no. You don't add chlorine every day as you say, remember, there's CYA in the water. I hope you are informing your customers about the dangers of mixing these two types of chlorine by the way.

How much CYA are you adding to your pool with those sticks?

Anonymous wrote:THERE'S NO CHLORINE IN THEIR POOL CAUSE THEY FOLLOW YOUR RULES THAT DON'T WORK.


Umm no. They know how to read the chorine level and add the right amount every time. This is not rocket science. The CYA holds the residual.

Anonymous wrote:- Trichloride can ruin your skimmer basket. It will still last over 5+ years and a new basket is like 10 dollars- and you'll always have SOME chlorine in your pool to give you some insurance.


Skimmer basket _and_equipment_. Remember that the trichlor in the skimmer is still dissolving when the pump is off, contrary to what Bioguard says. That skimmer has an exceedingly high level of chlorine and very low pH (what's the pH of trichlor again?), turning on the pump pulls all that stuff in. Yay! It's a shock treatment for the pool and equipment.

Again I must ask you how much CYA are you adding with trichlor.
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:28

Anonymous wrote:-Shock- if you're maintaining your chlorine at the APPROPRIATE level which 99% of chlorine user's can't do 24 hours a day they do need to shock it. Again- they follow your rules and get green pools.


No, the secret is training and knowledge. Once they know they do and they do quite well, and they save money by not buying two types of chlorine, not buying algicide, not buying Endure, Optimizer and other crap.

Anonymous wrote:-Algicide: I have encountered 5 poeple this year that don't use algicide. All 5 have needed new liners cause like you they just use chlorine!


Ask them how much chlorine they were adding then show them what they needed to add. You'll see a big difference.

Anonymous wrote:Over time their water becomes very acidic. Their PH's were below 3, their heaters were completely dissolved in their pools.


Again it boils down to proper training. Show them how to test the pH every week. It's easy. What's the pH of trichlor again? And what's the pH of calcium hypochlorite?

Anonymous wrote:-You don't need more chlorine for more CYN. I have never heard that till I was on this website. CYN doesn't affect the sanitization of a pool.


Oh Google that one please. It's documented everywhere that CYA negatively affects the effectiveness of chlorine. I can quote many many sources but I won't because this is basic knowledge. Even the industry is starting to post warnings about the potential pitfalls of using too much trichlor. Here's something from our friends at Arch/HTH for example, there are countless others.

http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/HTH/Po ... zation.htm

Anonymous wrote:As for CYN in the water affecting the reading of PH. It DOES. When you test water in a machine and a computer program there is an adjusted total alkalinity. Your test strips can't tell you what to do.


Now you're mixing up three concepts, CYA, pH and alkalinity. There is a correction factor for carbonate alkalinity suggested by Taylor Tech for water having a pH outside the norm or high CYA. But this factor introduces only a minor correction to TA.

Anonymous wrote:- As for the Borax- I don't know what it's in it. But If it is the SAME exact thing as Endure it does work very well.


I like to be informed and to inform my clients as to what exactly they are putting in their pools. I am not in the pool "business" and I do not sell chemicals. But you of all people should know what you are selling.

Anonymous wrote:I am no pool master but everything I've said IS ture. "Me" has simply taken the route I see people take everyday. THey cheap out and just buy chlorine. You've either got WAY too much chlorine or not enough. Poeple take YOUR route and then come in about ready to take their pools down because they run through tons of equipment and liners.


Well, you probably think trichlor is 90% chlorine because it says so on the label. See, the secret is training and knowledge, I'm trying to steer people away from the pool store and the bad advice. Maintaining a pool is not rocket science. But yes, it boils down to proper testing and . . . just buying chlorine.
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:30

quote="Anonymous"]-Shock- if you're maintaining your chlorine at the APPROPRIATE level which 99% of chlorine user's can't do 24 hours a day they do need to shock it. Again- they follow your rules and get green pools.[/quote]

No, the secret is training and knowledge. Once they know they do and they do quite well, and they save money by not buying two types of chlorine, not buying algicide, not buying Endure, Optimizer and other crap.

Anonymous wrote:-Algicide: I have encountered 5 poeple this year that don't use algicide. All 5 have needed new liners cause like you they just use chlorine!


Ask them how much chlorine they were adding then show them what they needed to add. You'll see a big difference.

Anonymous wrote:Over time their water becomes very acidic. Their PH's were below 3, their heaters were completely dissolved in their pools.


Again it boils down to proper training. Show them how to test the pH every week. It's easy. What's the pH of trichlor again? And what's the pH of calcium hypochlorite?

Anonymous wrote:-You don't need more chlorine for more CYN. I have never heard that till I was on this website. CYN doesn't affect the sanitization of a pool.


Oh Google that one please. It's documented everywhere that CYA negatively affects the effectiveness of chlorine. I can quote many many sources but I won't because this is basic knowledge. Even the industry is starting to post warnings about the potential pitfalls of using too much trichlor. Here's something from our friends at Arch/HTH for example, there are countless others.

http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/HTH/Po ... zation.htm
me

Postby me » Sun 13 Aug, 2006 21:32

Anonymous wrote:-Shock- if you're maintaining your chlorine at the APPROPRIATE level which 99% of chlorine user's can't do 24 hours a day they do need to shock it. Again- they follow your rules and get green pools.


No, the secret is training and knowledge. Once they know they do and they do quite well, and they save money by not buying two types of chlorine, not buying algicide, not buying Endure, Optimizer and other crap.

Anonymous wrote:-Algicide: I have encountered 5 poeple this year that don't use algicide. All 5 have needed new liners cause like you they just use chlorine!


Ask them how much chlorine they were adding then show them what they needed to add. You'll see a big difference.

Anonymous wrote:Over time their water becomes very acidic. Their PH's were below 3, their heaters were completely dissolved in their pools.


Again it boils down to proper training. Show them how to test the pH every week. It's easy. What's the pH of trichlor again? And what's the pH of calcium hypochlorite?

Anonymous wrote:-You don't need more chlorine for more CYN. I have never heard that till I was on this website. CYN doesn't affect the sanitization of a pool.


Oh Google that one please. It's documented everywhere that CYA negatively affects the effectiveness of chlorine. I can quote many many sources but I won't because this is basic knowledge. Even the industry is starting to post warnings about the potential pitfalls of using too much trichlor. As an example visit Arch's website and read all about overstabilization.

Return to “Pool Algae & Green Pool Water”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests