dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Algae problems in swimming pool water.
Green (cloudy) water or slimy pool walls.
Black algae. Mustard algae. Pink or white pool mold.
green pools

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby green pools » Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:39

have you ever seen the bottom of a drained dark green pool thats been sitting for months? please go ask all the guru's at the other sites the same thing and let me know the answer please.
please note I am not trying to argue just stating fact sometimes algicide is good to use....


chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby chem geek » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 12:52

The example I showed in the earlier post was a pool opened on spring opening. The examples below from TFP are for more seriously fouled pools such as those neglected for months or even years as is now being more frequently seen with foreclosures. I am using links for the photos because most are too large to be posted on this forum. As I wrote, it is very important to physically remove as much debris as possible. Sometimes pool services use ProTeam® System Support to raise debris to the surface where it can be more easily skimmed/removed (this product also produces hydrogen peroxide which is an oxidizer). More seriously fouled pools take longer to clear, but algaecide does not oxidize algae so it does not get rid of it. It can only slow down or stop algae growth, but in a pool that has been neglected for months the algae amount is in stasis since all algae nutrients will have been taken up by the algae. So algae dies and new algae grows, but the total does not continue to climb in such pools. There is a limit of 6 links per post so I have multiple posts.

Before
After

Before
After

(continued on next post...)
chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby chem geek » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 12:54

chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby chem geek » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 12:57

Example of debris

So when you say you use an alagecide, what specifically are you using? Some phosphate remover products, for example, have clarifiers in them to help clear the water from the cloudiness produced by lanthanum carbonate so the clarifier can sometimes help clear a pool faster if the water is cloudy from suspended particles and the filter is poor (say, a sand filter instead of DE).

So to be clear, with a seriously fouled pool one wants to first remove any physical debris (leaves, twigs, etc.) and if a lot of the algae is settled then one can also carefully vacuum-to-waste. Alternatively, one can use the ProTeam® System Support product to raise debris to the surface for removal (and to start oxidizing algae with the hydrogen peroxide in the product). In extreme situations, one can replace the water completely which can be less expensive in some cases.

After physical removal of debris or more easily removed settled algae, then one can use an oxidizer to begin clearing the pool and can use filtration/backwashing/cleaning of the filters. The least expensive and very effective oxidizer is chlorine. Again, algaecide is not an oxidizer. Chlorine will also kill algae as well as oxidize it. The dead algae will turn from green to gray and it is this gray/cloudy stage that is usually the longest phase to clear. Some people use clarifiers (e.g. GLB® Clear Blue® ) or flocculants (e.g. OMNI Liquid Floc Plus ) to speed up this stage. Though not necessary and not always effective and are extra cost, they do speed things up when they work.
green pools

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby green pools » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 16:27

I would guess you have not gone to a green swamp pool and fixed it yourself? I would suggest doing this so you can get first hand experience at it and understand everything that really goes on.
This is why I first wrote about a dark green pool and said the cheapestest way would be to drain pool, chlorinewash walls/floor, clean filter, refill and add chemicals. Can be done within 48 hrs so you save time and money and enjoy the pool.
When cleaning up a green swamp theres alot more time, effort, money envolved which is less pool time and unhappy kids.
Like I said before I have gone to green swamp pools before and have done it both ways chlorine only and chlorine and algicide and guess what using algicide is faster.
another thing, why do people want to wait until dead algea falls to the floor so they can vacuum it to waste using a sand filter when you can have a DE filter or cartridge filter that catches it when filtering?
I could not see all the pictures but which one of them where not extreme situations to replace the water completely? 20,000 gallons around here is $70-80 tops
chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby chem geek » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 16:45

The water rates where I live are here where water is fairly expensive. Houses with typical landscaping are usually well into Tier 2. 20,000 gallons is about 27 CCF and might push one in to Tier 3. Nevertheless, if I assume all Tier2 ($6.78/CCF) for the pool filling, then that would be about $180. Most of the cleanups on the forums were around $50 in chlorine, but you are correct that they take more time and effort if you use chlorine alone without clarifiers or flocculants, but I dispute that they are more expensive.

I don't think we disagree that for extremely fouled pools, a drain/refill (if the water table allows it so that the pool does not crack or pop up) would be a reasonable option. The reason some people let things settle (or use a flocculant) and vacuum-to-waste is that it is faster to remove a lot of dead algae and other debris rather than having to circulate via multiple turnovers to the filter for backwashing/cleaning. One turnover only has 63% of the pool water go through the filter. Also, unless one has an oversized filter, it can rise in pressure too much too quickly requiring frequent multiple backwashing/cleaning. Also, some people have cartridge filters and they are harder to clean than a simple backwashing of a sand filter.

I don't service pools, but read the reports from those that do. The forums have mostly residential pool owners, but also have many service people reporting. The service people primarily use additional chemicals for speed, not for cost. You didn't answer with what algaecide you are using that is giving you good results. What algaecide do you use?
green pools

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby green pools » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 17:22

kind of weird you live in northern cali I live in so cal we get our water from you but ours is cheaper?
The reason some people let things settle (or use a flocculant) and vacuum-to-waste is that it is faster to remove a lot of dead algae and other debris rather than having to circulate via multiple turnovers to the filter for backwashing/cleaning. One turnover only has 63% of the pool water go through the filter. Also, unless one has an oversized filter, it can rise in pressure too much too quickly requiring frequent multiple backwashing/cleaning.

only someone with a sand filter would say that statement, as backwashing a DE filter is fast and easy 5mns and your going again.
They primarily use additional chemicals for speed, not for cost.

chem geek are you missing the picture this is what they want FASTER!
Is electricity really cheap where you live because running your pump 24/7 until clear for a few days can cost a lot of money when you think how many people run AC and whatever else making them also go from teir to teir on that bill and this has been my point.
chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby chem geek » Sat 16 Jul, 2011 19:48

Yes, it is ironic that water sent down to L.A. is cheaper, but where I live north of S.F. the water comes from the Russian River and from local watershed reservoirs. It does not come from Hetch-Hetchy that is used by S.F. and the peninsula (south of S.F.) and is the water you get via the Aquaduct (along with Colorado River water -- see this interesting link ). The water rates in S.F. are less than the Tier 2 rates I quoted (see this link ) where the effective rate for filling a pool would be $4.60 per 100 cubic feet (748 gallons) so for 20,000 gallons would be $123. Mid-peninsula rates (shown here ) are also high at $6.15 above 26 CCF (so again, for those with homes that have landscaping as that usually puts one up at least at the $5.45 11-25 CCF range).

I agree that cleaning some filters is easier -- I was mostly referring to cartridge filters that are the bigger pain in the behind. In my own pool I have oversized cartridge filters (340 square feet) that I only need to clean once a year (the pressure doesn't even rise over the season or perhaps rises by 1-2 PSI at the most when comparing at 48 GPM with the solar on). I avoid getting algae by maintaining an appropriate FC/CYA ratio -- prevention is much easier than fixing a problem after-the-fact. My pool is 16,000 gallons (shown here and here ).

Electricity rates are also high where the marginal rate is around 40 cents per kilowatt-hour in the higher tiers where one would usually be in a larger home with a pool pump. However, even at 2000 Watts for the pump (mine is usually at 1500 Watts for solar on and 275 Watts for solar off with my Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed/flow pump), 24 hours would be almost $20, but that would probably be at least 3-4 turnovers (95-98% of pool water goes through the filter) assuming 42-56 GPM for 20,000 gallons so a pretty decent and fast clearing if the filter caught everything. Of course, with pumps at varying speeds you could run at a lower speed, but that would take longer to clear a pool. Again, the clearing in this case has to do with circulation and filtration and has nothing to do with algicide.

However, you still haven't told me the algicide that you use that you say makes things clear up faster -- please tell me what it is you are using. Again, I can see where a flocculant with vacuum-to-waste can be faster and more efficient and where a clarifier with filtration/backwashing/cleaning can be faster IF the filtration is poor (a clarifier does not speed up clearing if what is in the water gets caught in the filter anyway without a clarifier), but where does the algicide come in to help if the algae is already dead from the chlorine? The only time I've seen that helping is when the CYA level is high because in that situation the chlorine won't be very effective at killing algae, but if the CYA level is high one should dilute the water anyway to lower it so that could be done first. By the way, when one shocks with chlorine, one doesn't just do small additions nor a one-time dose -- one MAINTAINS a shock-level of FC that is 40% of the CYA level (another reason why one should start off with a lower CYA level by dilution, if necessary).

I don't want you to think I'm against using extra products for specific purposes. After someone with a phosphate remover product came over and I tried their product as an experiment, it severely clouded the pool. Since I wanted my wife to be able to swim the next day, I used a clarifier and overnight the pool was clear. Had I not used the clarifier, it would have taken longer to clear and might have remained slightly dull for some time since lanthanum carbonate percipitate does not clump well (i.e. tends to form more of a milky suspension). This is why some products, such as Natural Chemistry® PHOSfree™ , have clarifiers in them to avoid severe clouding (you add them to the skimmer so the precipitate is consolidated and gets caught in the filter right away). If one uses PolyQuat algicide, then that is also a (weak) clarifier as well, but it is the clarifying attribute that clears a pool faster, not the algicidal properties unless, as I wrote, you have high CYA so that the chlorine will not kill the algae fast enough.
Dmoney

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby Dmoney » Fri 23 Mar, 2012 13:37

Chem Geek wins by TKO
mistyd22

dark green pool - how do I clean it??

Postby mistyd22 » Mon 25 Jun, 2012 17:34

I am curious when clearing up my pool using bleach and borax, do I shock it with bleach first, then add the borax, vise versa, or at the same time?

Return to “Pool Algae & Green Pool Water”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests