Air in the system

Pool pumps, pool filters and the plumbing of
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Alex

Air in the system

Postby Alex » Sun 15 Oct, 2006 08:52

Hi,
By accident, during the cleaning, my Jacuzzi was left without the water with the running pump. Now, the system is full with the air, and I cannot get it out…
Any ideas????


Demons1964
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Postby Demons1964 » Sun 15 Oct, 2006 18:40

Unscrew the pump lid and let water from your garden hose run into the lint/hair basket. Hopefully the incoming water from the hose will either evacuate the air from the system or at the very least allow your pump to prime itself. Once the basket is full, put the lid back on and turn on the pump. If the water level in the basket drops keep repeating the procedure until the air is removed from the plumbing.
Alex

Postby Alex » Sun 15 Oct, 2006 22:59

Thank you for your suggestion; however, when I put the water in the basket, it keeps going back direction to the pipes in to the pool. So, you think the air is in the pump?
Anyway, thanks again, will be waiting for your answer
Alex

Postby Alex » Sun 15 Oct, 2006 23:08

PS
The reason why I am asking is that every time I put the water in to the basket, it keeps draining back in to the pool…..
Demons1964
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Joined: Tue 01 Aug, 2006 19:32
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Postby Demons1964 » Sun 15 Oct, 2006 23:58

Alex wrote:The reason why I am asking is that every time I put the water in to the basket, it keeps draining back in to the pool…..
The water you add through the pump basket should disappear down the intake side of the pump. Depending on how long your intake lines are it can take a LOT of water to displace all that air.

Can you describe exactly how you know the water keeps draining back in to the pool? I'm trying to understand if it is just filling up the pipes or if you have an air valve open somewhere.
Alex

Postby Alex » Mon 16 Oct, 2006 06:47

OK,
Thank you for your time. Well, the basket is a part of the pump; in one complex. Should I put a water hose there? Just keep in mind, that the pump is working now; just together with the water I get a tremendous amount of bubbling air out of the jets. Sorry, a am just a physician, here is a simplistic description of my pool plumnbing-2 skimmers, doing to the hair basket at the pump-pump-cartridge filter-pipes that are toward the pool. When you are talking about the intake lines to the pump, what do you mean by that? Are you talking about the lines between the skimmers and the pump? Anyway, the hair basket cannot be full with water, since it got 2 openings-one on the bottom, that supply the pump-outflow, and one on the top that delivers the water from the skimmers. So, once the water will reach the upper opening, it will go back to the second opening.
Sorry, I hope you got my problem…and thanks again
Demons1964
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Postby Demons1964 » Mon 16 Oct, 2006 19:44

Alex wrote:Here is a simplistic description of my pool plumnbing-2 skimmers, doing to the hair basket at the pump-pump-cartridge filter-pipes that are toward the pool.

First, check the 2 skimmers are empty of debris (leaves etc) and make sure the water level is at least halfway up both skimmer openings.

Question: do you have an air bleed valve on top of the cartridge filter? It might just be a plug you unscrew on top of the cartridge. You will need to use it later.

Just keep in mind, that the pump is working now; just together with the water I get a tremendous amount of bubbling air out of the jets.

Question: Are these jets above or below the water surface?

Anyway, the hair basket cannot be full with water, since it got 2 openings-one on the bottom, that supply the pump-outflow, and one on the top that delivers the water from the skimmers. So, once the water will reach the upper opening, it will go back to the second opening.

I understand what you are saying here. The key is to keep water in the basket with the pump lid closed, then it cannot drain out because the air has nowhere to go.

Well, the basket is a part of the pump; in one complex. Should I put a water hose there?

Yes, either use a hose or a bucket of water. Leave the pump turned off while you fill it. When the pump basket is full and before it drains back through the 2 openings, quickly remove the hose and tighten the lid. You need to be quick about this.

Now turn the pump on and open the valve on top of the cartridge filter. Wait until a steady stream of water starts coming out through that valve and then turn off the pump and close the valve on the filter.

Turn the pump back on and keep an eye on the water level in the pump basket. If it drops after a few minutes repeat everything you've just done. There may be some air left in the pipes you need to remove. If the water level continues to drop in the pump basket let me know becuase there is a chance you've damaged the o-ring under the pump lid when the pump ran dry.

Let me know how it works out.
Alex

Postby Alex » Mon 16 Oct, 2006 20:10

Good Evening,
Once again, thank you for your help. I'll try everything in the morning. I did try it today with one exception-after “bleeding’ the air out of the cartridge, I did not turn the pump off, just was closing the valve. I did replace the O ring on the lid. For about 2 or 3 min, there was no air in the jets…but only for a short time. But the garden hose was on for about 10 min. All my jets are under the water-3 in the pool, and 1 in Jacuzzi. Skimmers are full with the water and clean. When the pump is on all 4 jets are “working’ and the air is there; even you can see the air coming out of the Polaris tubing, and there is a lot of air. One more question-how much water and air can be in the pump, since you mentioned, that I might need to use a LOT of water.
So, I suspect that there is a constant “air suction’ from the outside…the question is how to find it.
Anyway, thank you so much for your help and I’ll report to you tomorrow.
Demons1964
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Posts: 39
Joined: Tue 01 Aug, 2006 19:32
Location: Australia

Postby Demons1964 » Mon 16 Oct, 2006 21:08

If you're able to close the bleed valve on the filter under pressure then that's ok. Some have pressure that is too high to close the valve and hence turning the pump off is recommended.

The good news is that the 2-3 mins running well means you seem to have cleared the air from the plumbing. The bad news is that the air coming back afterwards sounds to me like:

1) You've got a blockage in one of the suction lines
2) You've developed a leak on the intake (suction) side of the pump. That means the pump is drawing in air under pressure while the pump is running. The usual culprit is the pump o-ring. When you replaced it did you use a hydrophobic lubricant?

If the o-ring is not the source of the leak, are you able to isolate each of the suction lines (i.e. leave just 1 skimmer plumbing line open, all other suction lines closed)? Hopefully you have valves in place on the plumbing to check this. With the pump off isolate each of the suction lines using the valves, turn the pump on and check the returns in the pool. If the air gradually disappears in the return lines then that suction line checks out ok. Turn the pump off and try the next valve. If the return lines into the pool stop flowing and/or start putting out heaps more air then you've found which suction line is the problem. If all suction lines show the same problem then the leak must be either at the pump or in the plumbing between the suction valves and the pump.

Do you also have a main drain as well as the 2 skimmers?

May be unrelated but you mentioned Polaris tubing - are you running a pressure cleaner with separate booster pump?
Alex
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Postby Alex » Tue 17 Oct, 2006 05:29

Good Morning,
Thank you so much for your help. Just few notes-the way my pool is set up, I can isolate the jets by using the valve-pool only, Jacuzzi only, or partially pool and Jacuzzi-my usual mode. So, water goes in to Jacuzzi jets + pool jets, and through the skimmers back in to the pump. My impression is that there is a constant “influx’ of air; my question is-for the sake of the argument-if the pump was working “dry” for a considerable amount of time-what most likely is damaged??? I did replace an O ring on the hair basket lid. I am not sure that I can work on the pump-have to hire somebody to do so. But as long as damage is above the ground-I feel OK, because all the pipes are under the ground. Or, do you think, that it is possible to suck so much air from the pipes that are under the deck.
Thanks again…

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