Okay, just hung up with my guy....trying to pull info out of a rock....
Free cholrine is 2
pH is 80 & 7.4 whatever that means
Pool is approx. 20K gallons
Keep asking him about about chlorine/chloramines and get no real answer.
He apparently shocked it like crazy, my daughter will get in tonight, and we'll pray for no rash.
I'll try to get a water sample out again this week.
SKIN RASH! HELP!
It's too bad your pool guy isn't forthcoming about the CC's in your pool.
I realize with your health concern that you may not want to test it yourself, but perhaps you could purchase your own good test kit and have a neighbor or relative test your water for you.
Get a good one, though that will test for CC's.
tftestkits dotcom or a good kit from Taylor like the K-2006.
I realize with your health concern that you may not want to test it yourself, but perhaps you could purchase your own good test kit and have a neighbor or relative test your water for you.
Get a good one, though that will test for CC's.
tftestkits dotcom or a good kit from Taylor like the K-2006.
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chem geek
- Pool Industry Leader
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- Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
- Location: San Rafael, California
(I am unable to post a couple of sentences where this site thinks I'm posting a URL link when I am not. This is really annoying!)
I bet that the rash is due to the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch". Most people are not sensitive to this bacteria (Pseudomonas aeruginosa) and the bacteria is not found in all pools and spas, but for those who are affected, it's very uncomfortable (just do a search on "hot tub itch" to read more about it).
Unfortunately, it takes a far higher chlorine level to kill the bacteria that causes hot tub itch. Most bacteria are very easy-to-kill with chlorine and require a disinfecting chlorine level of only 0.005 to kill. Since algae is far harder to kill than most bacteria, the normal target recommendation is to keep the disinfecting chlorine level at 0.05 ppm. The hot tub itch bacteria needs 0.25 ppm to kill and that is around the shock level of chlorine.
So how does one go from the disinfecting chlorine level to the Free Chlorine (FC) you need? It depends on your CYA level but the rule of thumb is that for normal sanitation and prevention of algae you should target an FC level that is 11.5% of your CYA level. For manually dosed pools (i.e. not SWG pools), you should never let the FC get below 7.5% of the CYA level. To shock the pool for algae and to get rid of hot tub itch, you need to raise the FC level to 40% of the CYA level for 24 hours. It sounds like your CYA level is 80 which is too high. Shocking with 32 ppm FC and then maintaining 9.2 ppm FC is probably impractical.
So you should do a partial drain/refill of your pool water to get the CYA level down to something more manageable -- closer to 30-40 ppm. Then you can shock with just 12-16 ppm FC and then maintain 3.5 - 4.6 ppm FC. You will want to thoroughly wash your swimsuits in hot soapy water and be sure to have the pool cleaner and any equipment in the pool when you shock it -- or clean them separately to prevent reintroduction of the bacteria into your pool.
Richard
I bet that the rash is due to the bacteria that causes "hot tub itch". Most people are not sensitive to this bacteria (Pseudomonas aeruginosa) and the bacteria is not found in all pools and spas, but for those who are affected, it's very uncomfortable (just do a search on "hot tub itch" to read more about it).
Unfortunately, it takes a far higher chlorine level to kill the bacteria that causes hot tub itch. Most bacteria are very easy-to-kill with chlorine and require a disinfecting chlorine level of only 0.005 to kill. Since algae is far harder to kill than most bacteria, the normal target recommendation is to keep the disinfecting chlorine level at 0.05 ppm. The hot tub itch bacteria needs 0.25 ppm to kill and that is around the shock level of chlorine.
So how does one go from the disinfecting chlorine level to the Free Chlorine (FC) you need? It depends on your CYA level but the rule of thumb is that for normal sanitation and prevention of algae you should target an FC level that is 11.5% of your CYA level. For manually dosed pools (i.e. not SWG pools), you should never let the FC get below 7.5% of the CYA level. To shock the pool for algae and to get rid of hot tub itch, you need to raise the FC level to 40% of the CYA level for 24 hours. It sounds like your CYA level is 80 which is too high. Shocking with 32 ppm FC and then maintaining 9.2 ppm FC is probably impractical.
So you should do a partial drain/refill of your pool water to get the CYA level down to something more manageable -- closer to 30-40 ppm. Then you can shock with just 12-16 ppm FC and then maintain 3.5 - 4.6 ppm FC. You will want to thoroughly wash your swimsuits in hot soapy water and be sure to have the pool cleaner and any equipment in the pool when you shock it -- or clean them separately to prevent reintroduction of the bacteria into your pool.
Richard
Chem geek, I know, this site is very irritating, at times.
Even though it won't let you supposedly type in a link, it will let you use the URL tags to do so. Weird.
Anyway, I think she and I both have come to the same conclusion about hot tub rash.
You make even better suggestions than I ever could. I'm so glad you are around.
Even though it won't let you supposedly type in a link, it will let you use the URL tags to do so. Weird.
Anyway, I think she and I both have come to the same conclusion about hot tub rash.
You make even better suggestions than I ever could. I'm so glad you are around.
Hi again! REad the posts and have printed them out and will show them to my pool guy tomorrow. My daughter just got out and after all this shocking still has the bumps but not as bad. Since I'm having a party next week, does it sound reasonable to drain, acid wash and refill rather than to keep trying to get the chemicals correct? If it is this bacteria, shouldn't that cure it?
I truly appreciate all the advise you are giving!!!
I truly appreciate all the advise you are giving!!!
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chem geek
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
- Location: San Rafael, California
katiasmom,
From your earlier post it sounded like the CYA level might be 80 (you said "pH is 80 & 7.4 whatever that means" so I assume that the 80 was probably the CYA level). If you do indeed have a Cyanuric Acid level of 80, you should do a partial drain/refill which is the only way to reduce it -- through dilution. You can then shock with the lower levels I mentioned since 40% of a lower CYA number is a lower Free Chlorine (FC) shock level.
I don't think a complete drain/refill is necessary. Bacteria can be readily killed by chlorine -- it's just this particular bacteria that is heartier, but it's not as hard to get rid of as some algae (yellow/mustard, for example).
Richard
From your earlier post it sounded like the CYA level might be 80 (you said "pH is 80 & 7.4 whatever that means" so I assume that the 80 was probably the CYA level). If you do indeed have a Cyanuric Acid level of 80, you should do a partial drain/refill which is the only way to reduce it -- through dilution. You can then shock with the lower levels I mentioned since 40% of a lower CYA number is a lower Free Chlorine (FC) shock level.
I don't think a complete drain/refill is necessary. Bacteria can be readily killed by chlorine -- it's just this particular bacteria that is heartier, but it's not as hard to get rid of as some algae (yellow/mustard, for example).
Richard
I kept asking what my CYA level was and he (pool guy) kept saying that is a ???acid level and he never gave me a number. He did keep saying the "80" when I asked pH. Didn't sound right to me either....
I am willing to drain and refill if this will guarantee no more itch. If he's got my chemicals so out of whack, maybe a fresh start is the best way to go.
If I take a sample of water to our local pool store, will they be able to readily give me the values for all the different things you're looking for. Should I take samples from 2 different depths?
I am willing to drain and refill if this will guarantee no more itch. If he's got my chemicals so out of whack, maybe a fresh start is the best way to go.
If I take a sample of water to our local pool store, will they be able to readily give me the values for all the different things you're looking for. Should I take samples from 2 different depths?
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chem geek
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
- Location: San Rafael, California
Actually, the best thing for you to do is to buy a good test kit, the Taylor K-2006 kit from Taylor here or from Leslie's here or a similar and even better kit from tfttestkits(dot)com here. These test kits test accurately for chlorine using a FAS-DPD test where you count drops -- it's VERY accurate. They also test pH, Total Alkalinity (TA), Calcium Hardness (CH) and Cyanuric Acid (CYA).
You can try two pool stores, but many do not test reliably. It's as much the tester as their test systems. Testing isn't hard, but if they use special equipment and aren't trained well on it, then the results are often wrong.
You can try two pool stores, but many do not test reliably. It's as much the tester as their test systems. Testing isn't hard, but if they use special equipment and aren't trained well on it, then the results are often wrong.
It's hard to imagine that someone who you are paying to take care of a pool cannot give you a straight answer. Goodness! It isn't that difficult and a pro should know right off, what you are asking for.
Draining and acid washing might not be a bad idea, especially if it hasn't been done in a while. Don't know. Chem geek is correct, that you certainly can fight most things with the right chemistry.
Draining and acid washing might not be a bad idea, especially if it hasn't been done in a while. Don't know. Chem geek is correct, that you certainly can fight most things with the right chemistry.
WE'RE HAVING NO LUCK AT ALL!!! Today we drained, acid washed EVERYTHING including filters, and refilled pool with 3 truck loads of city water. Added absolutely nothing. My daughter got in this evening and had one of the worse rashes yet. This is absolutely unbelievable! I did a test strip which showed very low chlorine (city water has some),, low everything, semi-high hardness.....It's amazing that this is the only pool that does this to her...Where to go from here?-
chem geek
- Pool Industry Leader
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
- Location: San Rafael, California
I don't think you shocked the pool with chlorine, did you? Just draining the water and refilling isn't necessarily going to kill all the bacteria. Now that you have fresh water in the pool, get the water chemistry into balance -- a pH near 7.5, TA around 80, CH around 300, CYA around 30. Then shock with chlorine at 12 ppm FC (or whatever is 40% of your CYA level you get to) and keep it at the level for at least 24 hours. Then after you let the chlorine drop a bit (below 10 ppm), see how your daughter does with the rash.
If you need to add some CYA, you can use Dichlor to do that since it dissolves quickly and for every 1 ppm FC you add you also get 0.9 ppm CYA. Just don't overdo it -- keep track of how much you add. One pound of Dichlor (dihydrate) in 10,000 gallons raises the FC by 6.6 ppm and the CYA by 6.0 ppm so you can scale to your pool size accordingly. After you've reached your desired CYA level, switch to bleach or chlorinating liquid or if your Calcium Hardness is low you can use Cal-Hypo (for every 1 ppm FC from Cal-Hypo you get 0.7 ppm CH).
And when you shock, don't forget to put everything into the pool that you would later put in the pool such as pools, brushes, etc. Also don't forget to clean the swimsuits with hot soapy water.
If you need to add some CYA, you can use Dichlor to do that since it dissolves quickly and for every 1 ppm FC you add you also get 0.9 ppm CYA. Just don't overdo it -- keep track of how much you add. One pound of Dichlor (dihydrate) in 10,000 gallons raises the FC by 6.6 ppm and the CYA by 6.0 ppm so you can scale to your pool size accordingly. After you've reached your desired CYA level, switch to bleach or chlorinating liquid or if your Calcium Hardness is low you can use Cal-Hypo (for every 1 ppm FC from Cal-Hypo you get 0.7 ppm CH).
And when you shock, don't forget to put everything into the pool that you would later put in the pool such as pools, brushes, etc. Also don't forget to clean the swimsuits with hot soapy water.
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Daniel
Plavix and bleeding
Generic Plavix may make it easier for you to bleed, even from a minor injury. See your physician or seek emergency medical attention if you have bleeding which will not stop.
You can also have bleeding on the inside of your body, such as in your stomach or intestines. See your physician at once if you have black or bloody stools, or if you cough up blood or vomit which looks like coffee grounds
You can also have bleeding on the inside of your body, such as in your stomach or intestines. See your physician at once if you have black or bloody stools, or if you cough up blood or vomit which looks like coffee grounds
Re: Plavix and bleeding
Daniel wrote:Generic Plavix may make it easier for you to bleed, even from a minor injury. See your physician or seek emergency medical attention if you have bleeding which will not stop.
You can also have bleeding on the inside of your body, such as in your stomach or intestines. See your physician at once if you have black or bloody stools, or if you cough up blood or vomit which looks like coffee grounds
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