cloudy and now greenish AGAIN...

Causes and cures for cloudy swimming pool water.
Milky pool water, white, pink, brown, purple, black cloudy water.
tnt2000
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cloudy and now greenish AGAIN...

Postby tnt2000 » Wed 04 Jul, 2007 08:20

Ok This has happened before, about 3 weeks ago. I was told just to keep shocking it and it will clear up. It only got worse. Finally I went to another pool place and they said my chlorine was way too high, they said to flock it. I did that and the water was pretty clear, I vacumed to wast. Day by day over the next 3 weeks it got cloudy again, now its turning greenish and more cloudy, I went back to the pool place...this is there readings.

Free Chlorine 3.1
Total Chlorine 3.2
Combined Chlorine 0.1
Total Alc. input 95
Total Alc. adjusted 73
pH level 7.6
Calcium Hardness 170
Cyanuric Acid 65
copper 0.0
iron 0.0
TDSolids 0
Saturation index -0.07

I have a 18 x 36 inground vinyl pool 24800 gal. Sand filter

I dont get this why does this keep happening, last year no problem, this year I can not get the water clear. My test kit says the pool chlorine is good any help would be great.

I changed the sand in my filter yesterday, I am running out of ideas.


chem geek
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Postby chem geek » Wed 04 Jul, 2007 12:17

You are battling a nascent algae bloom because your Free Chlorine (FC) level is too low for your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. You need to keep an absolute minimum FC of 7.5% of your CYA level and usually you target 11.5% of your CYA level for safety. Assuming your CYA level was accurately determined (it may be higher), you need to target 65 * 11.5/100 = 7.5 ppm FC (an absolute minimum of 65 * 7.5/100 = 4.9 ppm FC).

The advice about chlorine being too high causing the problem was wrong. That only causes cloudiness if the pH was already high in which case the chlorine addition raises the pH more and IF the TA and CH are high, then cloudiness can occur from over-saturation with calcium carbonate. If your pool store numbers are correct, then that is not your situation (unless you used Cal-Hypo -- read below).

If you shocked with Cal-Hypo, then that can make your pool cloudy temporarily because it adds to calcium and raises pH (temporarily until the chlorine goes away). I suspect that is what you added. If you had added bleach (unscented) or chlorinating liquid, then the water would not have turned cloudy during shocking.

To get rid of the bloom that you have, you need to raise your Free Chorine level to 40% of your CYA level or 65 * 40/100 = 26 ppm FC and you should first lower your pH level to 7.4 or lower (not below 7.2) first. You don't have to have the full 26 ppm FC, but the bloom will clear faster if you do. At a minimum, keep at least 15 ppm FC at all times during shocking -- check multiple times and add more chlorine to keep the FC level up as the chlorine (and sunlight) will consume it. Only let the chlorine level drop when the following three things occur: 1) You find minimal drop in FC level overnight (<= 0.5 ppm FC drop) and 2) your water is crystal clear and 3) you measure minimal Combined Chlorine (CC) (< 0.5 ppm CC).

Get yourself a good test kit, the Taylor K-2006 from here or here or the even better kit here, so you can do the testing yourself and not rely on the pool stores.

If your pool does not have a floor drain (i.e. only has a skimmer), then you may need to use OMNI Liquid Floc Plus and then vacuum to waste. You won't need this if your pool has good circulation and your filter is in good shape.

Richard
tnt2000
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Adding shock

Postby tnt2000 » Wed 04 Jul, 2007 19:02

what is the best method to add shock? I had noticed you referance bleach, do you recomend this and what would be the quantity to add?..

Thanks for you reply Chem geek....
TnT.
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Postby chem geek » Thu 05 Jul, 2007 13:16

In your 24,800 gallon pool, it will take about 10-1/2 gallons of 6% bleach to raise the FC level from 0 to 26 ppm. It would take about half as much or around 5 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid.

As I said in the post, you can add less, but it will take longer to clear the algae. 15 ppm FC is about 6 gallons of 6% bleach (3 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid) and you'll need to keep adding more to keep the FC level at least at 15 ppm until the water clears and you measure < 0.5 ppm Combined Chlorine (CC) and you register < 0.5 ppm FC drop overnight.

I use chlorinating liquid from my pool store even though it's a little more expensive than the bleach because they recycle (reuse/refill) the plastic bottles.

Richard
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Re: Adding shock

Postby Backglass » Thu 05 Jul, 2007 15:58

tnt2000 wrote:what is the best method to add shock? I had noticed you referance bleach, do you recomend this and what would be the quantity to add?..


Chem geek speaks the truth. Household Bleach is sodium hypochlorite...also known as (drum roll) Chlorine! It's the exact same thing as pool store "liquid shock" except for strength. Pool store chlorine is usually 10-15% and store bleach is 5-6%. It's also at least 25% of the pool store price. My local pool store sells "liquid chlorine" (12%) for $9.95 a gallon. Wal-mart sells Ultra-Bleach (6%) for two bucks! Remember, "shock" is something you DO by raising your chlorine levels, not something you buy.

As for how much, download BLEACHCALC which is a GREAT program for using the BBB method. Bleach, Baking Soda & Borax.
tnt2000
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How long does it take

Postby tnt2000 » Sat 07 Jul, 2007 08:14

Ok I am adding chlorine I have not however recieved my good test kit yet but I am going by color on my other kit, just keeping it the same and high...It has been 1 1/2 days and the pool is still greenish and cloudy, maybe not as green as it was (I am not sure) so how long should this take, Now I am wasting another great weekend with no swimming....This stinks....

Thanks TnT

Ps I started out by adding 5 gal. liquid chlorine, and add every day....
Backglass
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Re: How long does it take

Postby Backglass » Sat 07 Jul, 2007 08:56

tnt2000 wrote:Ok I am adding chlorine I have not however recieved my good test kit yet but I am going by color on my other kit, just keeping it the same and high...It has been 1 1/2 days and the pool is still greenish and cloudy, maybe not as green as it was (I am not sure) so how long should this take, Now I am wasting another great weekend with no swimming....This stinks....

Thanks TnT

Ps I started out by adding 5 gal. liquid chlorine, and add every day....


I feel your pain. Unfortunately it will take a few days. Keep at it and make sure your filter runs 24/7. Vacuum any obvious piles of dirt to waste and then brush every surface as often as possible. I know it seems counter productive to brush as it just stirs everything up and makes the water look worse, but that's the idea. That way everything comes in contact with your super-chlorinated water and stirring it up makes it easier for your filter to get it.

It WILL get better.
tnt2000
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new pool place numbers today

Postby tnt2000 » Sat 07 Jul, 2007 10:34

Free Chlorine 5.0
Total Chlorine 5.0
Combined Chlorine 0.0
Total Alc. input 32
Total Alc. adjusted 14
pH level 7.4
Calcium Hardness 232
Cyanuric Acid 58
copper 0.0
iron 0.0
TDSolids 0
Saturation index -0.63

(I think the free chlorine and total chlorine is as high as the reading goes, it is much higher 3 + times)

do I add alc. up or wait?
they also said to flock to helf filter smaller particals.

Thanks all TnT
tnt2000
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Stabelized tablets

Postby tnt2000 » Sat 07 Jul, 2007 13:26

I took notice you have been mentioning stabalizer raises CYA levels...

I just thought about it last year I had no problems, When I opened the pool they gave me stabalizer, and 3" chlorine tablets...

This year I got my 3" tablets from home depot...they are Stabalized tablets, could this be adding to or causing my problem?(too much stablizer)

TnT
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Re: Stabelized tablets

Postby Backglass » Sat 07 Jul, 2007 19:40

tnt2000 wrote:I took notice you have been mentioning stabalizer raises CYA levels...

I just thought about it last year I had no problems, When I opened the pool they gave me stabalizer, and 3" chlorine tablets...

This year I got my 3" tablets from home depot...they are Stabalized tablets, could this be adding to or causing my problem?(too much stablizer)

TnT


CYA IS stabalizer. 50 is usually the upper limit and you are already over that. I would stop using the pucks as it will only cause problems down the road.
Guest

Postby Guest » Mon 09 Jul, 2007 16:02

I'm having the same problem with cloudy green water, we just had a rental DE filter on (ours is sand) from Thurs to Monday and our pool is crystal clear, hoping it will stay that way. For some reason the particles in the water are too small for the sand to capture. We had a high phosphate level so added something to lower that this weekend too.

The other option our pool store suggested was a 24 hour chlorine demand test to see how much chlorine we need to add all at once to knock out whatever is in there. They'll do that if we start going cloudy again.
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Postby Backglass » Mon 09 Jul, 2007 19:33

Anonymous wrote:I'm having the same problem with cloudy green water, we just had a rental DE filter on (ours is sand) from Thurs to Monday and our pool is crystal clear, hoping it will stay that way.


No need to rent a filter and go through that hassle. Just buy some DE and add it to your sand filter. Voila! Instant DE filter rental. The DE will trap the tiny particles and it all gets backwashed out. $20 will buy you 25 pounds...enough for several of these "rentals". :P

Floc is also an option for microscopic particles.

Anonymous wrote:The other option our pool store suggested was a 24 hour chlorine demand test to see how much chlorine we need to add all at once to knock out whatever is in there. They'll do that if we start going cloudy again.


Or, buy a good test kit and do it yourself. If your CC numbers are high and your water is cloudy, just get your pool to shock level and keep it there for 24 hours.
Ziora
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Adding DE to a sand filter

Postby Ziora » Thu 12 Jul, 2007 20:01

This is probably going to sound like a stupid question. Can you add the DE to a sand filter from the skimmer, letting it suck it into the filter? How much do you add?

I asked someone at a pool store about that today and she said not to do it, but I don't see why not. Wouldn't it get washed out when you back wash?
Backglass
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Re: Adding DE to a sand filter

Postby Backglass » Thu 12 Jul, 2007 20:30

Ziora wrote:This is probably going to sound like a stupid question. Can you add the DE to a sand filter from the skimmer, letting it suck it into the filter? How much do you add?

I asked someone at a pool store about that today and she said not to do it, but I don't see why not. Wouldn't it get washed out when you back wash?


Thats exactly how you do it. It's silly to rent a DE filter (unless you are the one doing the renting ;)).

Just buy some DE and add a cup or two to your sand filter. It cant hurt the filter...because DE is (drum roll) DIRT. And DIRT gets backwashed out!

It's an easy way to get DE like filtering in those instances when you need it.
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Postby RTK » Sat 28 Jul, 2007 20:18

The DE they sell locally is crystalline silica, is this the same thing???

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