Are pebble tek readings different?

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MikeinAZ
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby MikeinAZ » Tue 17 Jul, 2007 13:21

Are any of the readings/levels (ie ph, fc, ca etc.) different for regular plaster pools than Pebble Tek?

I started using the BBB method around 3wks ago and have saved quite a bit of money and my pool is looking like new :D . The pool store never told me that my CYA was low :evil: and I kept buying "shock" and going through the frogger cylinders. After reading the BBB method on another site (which you can no longer register for) I've bought the Taylor kit and I've since than raised my CYA to 30. I just added a little more CYA so I'm hoping to be around 40-50 for CYA and that should stop me from using up so much chlorine. Now I'm trying to bring my TA level down and keep my FC stable. Here are my numbers, any help would be appreciated:

12,000 Gal Bean Shape Pebble Tek
CYA 40
TA 220
CA/CH 270
FC 3.5 (as of this morning but drops daily)
CC 0.5
PH 7.2

I'm currently trying to keep my ph low to aid in lowering my TA by areating. I just started areating yesterday by turning my return jets up to release gas.


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Re: Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby Guest » Wed 18 Jul, 2007 16:01

MikeinAZ wrote:Are any of the readings/levels (ie ph, fc, ca etc.) different for regular plaster pools than Pebble Tek?

I started using the BBB method around 3wks ago and have saved quite a bit of money and my pool is looking like new :D . The pool store never told me that my CYA was low :evil: and I kept buying "shock" and going through the frogger cylinders. After reading the BBB method on another site (which you can no longer register for) I've bought the Taylor kit and I've since than raised my CYA to 30. I just added a little more CYA so I'm hoping to be around 40-50 for CYA and that should stop me from using up so much chlorine. Now I'm trying to bring my TA level down and keep my FC stable. Here are my numbers, any help would be appreciated:

12,000 Gal Bean Shape Pebble Tek
CYA 40
TA 220
CA/CH 270
FC 3.5 (as of this morning but drops daily)
CC 0.5
PH 7.2

I'm currently trying to keep my ph low to aid in lowering my TA by areating. I just started areating yesterday by turning my return jets up to release gas.


Not feeling any Love here :roll: :lol:

Also according to the bleach calculators it's taking me twice as much bleach to raise my FC levels, any thougths :?:
chem geek
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby chem geek » Wed 18 Jul, 2007 22:10

PebbleTek is similar to plaster/gunite pools in that you need to keep calcium levels in the typical range near 300 ppm. Yours is just fine. The TA is high, but you already knew that and are taking care of it correctly. For FC, try and target 11.5% of the CYA level or 4.6 ppm but don't ever let it get below 7.5% of the CYA level or 3.0 ppm.

My calculator says that for your 12,000 gallon pool (assuming that is correct), that one jug (which is 96 ounces or 3/4 of a gallon) of 6% unscented bleach (Clorox Regular or off-brand Ultra) would add 3.86 ppm FC to your pool. If you're seeing a lot less, then if you are using an off-brand, not Clorox, then I suspect it's not 6% -- if it's "regular" off-brand, it may only be 3% bleach.

Richard
MikeinAZ
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby MikeinAZ » Thu 19 Jul, 2007 09:18

Richard thanks. I checked the generic bleach last night and it was only 2.75 :x , I guess I'll stay with Clorox. I left the cover off the pool and aerated last night and my TA dropped to 170 and my PH went up to 7.6. So I put some muriatic acid in to drop the ph level and am going to leave the cover off to continue to bring my TA down. I checked my FC this morning before leaving to work and it dropped to 8ppm and my CC went up to 1ppm. What would cause my CC to rise after I shocked the pool? I put more chlorine in this morning to bring my FC back to around 16ppm. My wife is going to check it around noon and add more bleach if needed.
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Re: Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby Backglass » Thu 19 Jul, 2007 10:05

MikeinAZ wrote:I started using the BBB method around 3wks ago and have saved quite a bit of money and my pool is looking like new :D .


Woohoo!!!!

MikeinAZ wrote: After reading the BBB method on another site (which you can no longer register for)


All the experts from that site have landed HERE

:D
===============================
I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com

Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.
chem geek
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby chem geek » Thu 19 Jul, 2007 10:07

First of all, the process of lowering your pool's TA will go faster if you try and keep the pH lower during the process. The rate of outgassing of carbon dioxide is much faster at lower pH. So if you lower the pH to 7.2 and aerate and when it gets to 7.4 you add acid to get it back to 7.2, then the process will go faster. You end up adding the same total cumulative amount of acid no matter how long you take doing this, but you'll get to your TA target faster if you do the process at low pH.

The CC goes up when there is something in the pool that chlorine can combine with -- some sort of organic or possibly ammonia (less likely -- usually this would come from urea in urine and it turns out that chlorine doesn't react very quickly with urea even though it reacts almost instantaneously with ammonia). You've either got pollen or leaves/needles or possibly algae. You are unlikely to have algae if the Free Chlorine level was maintained relative to the CYA level prior to the shock.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. Though measured CC is rare in an outdoor pool exposed to sunlight and properly maintained with chlorine, it does happen after heavy bather load or when organic junk gets into the pool.

Richard
MikeinAZ
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby MikeinAZ » Thu 19 Jul, 2007 12:27

BBB works a lot better when you know the strength of the bleach you are adding to the pool :roll: :lol:

I've been keeping my ph down to 7.2 but I have also been covering the pool at night so I don't loose to much heat. Well I was kind of defeating the purpose. So last night I left the cover off and continued to aerate and that's why my ph jumped back up. I added acid this morning to bring it back down and I left the cover off and the jets pointing up to further aerate. If it dropped as much as it did last night my TA should be a lot lower. I think I will always be fighting high TA since the tap water here is also high.
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chem geek
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby chem geek » Thu 19 Jul, 2007 20:41

Well, as you have found out, the rise in pH and the acid addition that lowers TA is a "pay me now or pay me later" sort of situation. You can either lower the TA a lot quickly through aeration and low pH and then add less acid over time later OR you just live with the higher TA and add acid on a regular basis (with the TA not dropping much due to new TA introduced from the fill water). It's really up to you and there is no right answer.

If one decides to live with higher TA, then the only issue to worry about is over-saturation of calcium carbonate, so one can have a lower Calcium Hardness level to compensate for the higher TA. Unfortunately, some well water is high in BOTH TA AND CH which pretty much makes it a requirement to lower the TA or else get scaling. A water softener can lower the CH, but generally not the TA.

Richard
MikeinAZ
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby MikeinAZ » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 09:29

How long should I wait to add bleach after adding after acid and if I add the bleach right away will the acid break down the bleach quicker?
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chem geek
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Are pebble tek readings different?

Postby chem geek » Fri 20 Jul, 2007 11:30

They aren't related. You can add bleach whenever you want -- right after the acid. The acid will not break down the bleach and the acid dilutes rather quickly (and is added to buffered water so the pH doesn't drop too much). Just remember to add either very slowly into the water so you don't get a glob of concentrated acid or bleach -- generally pour it slowly over a return and that tends to mix things pretty well. For above-ground vinyl pools without a floor drain, pre-mixing by adding acid or chlorine to a bucket of pool water is safer (perhaps overkill, but people often get impatient and just dump chemicals in quickly).

Now my comments about acid and bleach refer to having them in the pool. You NEVER add concentrated chemicals together with each other. Adding concentrated acid to concentrated bleach will result in chlorine gas fumes -- not a good thing!

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