ballpark of how much chemicals are going to cost for 45,000

The basics of swimming pool maintenance.
New swimming pool owner's questions.
Help getting started with daily pool care.
buzzbait

Postby buzzbait » Mon 13 Aug, 2007 21:16

Ok!Two days til closeing!!The pool is 36x18x9 maybe 10ft at the deep end 3 at the shallow.Found out that we have a Leslie's store nearby so I dropped in.They tested my the water.FAC-2,PH-7.8,TA-120,TDS-300.That's all they tested for.Didn't test for cya.
I asked if they had a Taylor k-2006.They did not they had their DPD delux test kit made by Taylor.It tests for free and total chlorine bromine,ph,acid demand and total alkalinity.Here is were I should have done more home work!I asked the little girl if acid demand ment the same as a cya test.She asured me that it was so I bought the kit.I know better now!Can you buy just a Taylor cya test?If so were?
I know you guy's know what your talking about and I want to learn "the ways of a Jedi" but I can't understand why Lowe's,Home depo,Wal-mart,Leslie's pool supplies and two pool guy's i've talked too and the 4 other pool supply places I've called only sell/use Trichlor or Dichlor and tell me to use it if cya is such a problem!!and why I can't find anything else!They look at me like im crazy when i ask about chlorinating liquid!


chem geek
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Postby chem geek » Mon 13 Aug, 2007 22:41

Leslie's sells the Taylor K-2006 kit online here and it has the better FAS-DPD chlorine test compared to what they gave you (which may have been a K-2005 or worse). The DPD chlorine test you have will only test up to 5 ppm FC and won't be as accurate. If it's a comparator test (i.e. see the intensity of red color), then get the FAS-DPD Taylor 1515-A directly from Taylor here . If the test kit they sold you truly does not test for CYA, then get the Taylor K-1721 here or the K-1720 here depending on how many tests you want to do.

The best test kit to get is based on the Taylor kit, but has a more logical set of reagents and is the TF100 sold at tftestkits here so at some point as you run out of chemicals and want to "start over" with a new kit, then this is one to get (or at least get the Taylor K-2006 if not the TF100).

As for the pool stores, most of the employees are not trained well on pool water chemistry nor what the test kits do. They have very little incentive to do so since they would prefer controlling the measurements and making recommendations having you buy chemicals rather than you figuring out what you need (which is usually minimal) and even buying store-bought chemicals in place of the pool store. I wouldn't mind at all buying from a store where service was truly provided, but in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot as more and more pool users get frustrated and turn to forums to figure things out. The manufacturers of Trichlor and Dichlor don't help by promoting the mantra that "CYA doesn't matter; only FC matters in real pools".

Now, to their credit, most manufacturers do say that if you use Trichlor regularly you should also use a weekly PolyQuat 60 algaecide (that they also sell) and they often package these as "programs" guaranteed to not get algae. At least they aren't lying in this case. They just aren't telling the whole truth that chlorine alone CAN keep away algae in most cases if CYA levels are monitored.

Richard
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Postby chem geek » Tue 14 Aug, 2007 12:14

If you ever need to shock the pool, then you'd have to use the dilution method to measure the higher chlorine levels. I don't think that's the way to go. I'd get the Taylor K-1515-A test for the far superior FAS-DPD chlorine test instead. And you will need one of the two Taylor tests I mentioned (1721 or 1720) to test for CYA as well.

Perhaps if you haven't opened the test kit yet, you can take it back and get a refund and then just order the TF100 online as tftestkits will ship it very quickly to you. Otherwise, fill in with the Taylor tests mentioned above. Sorry you got burned. Most pool stores do not carry the FAS-DPD chlorine test kit -- even though you can get them online (from Leslie's online, for example).

I see that Jason over at TFP pretty much gave you the same advice. The folks at TFP are great and many came from The Pool Forum which unfortunately no longer accepts new members (the owner of that forum, Ben Powell, is gone and out of communication).
buzzbait

Postby buzzbait » Tue 14 Aug, 2007 14:32

Ok!I went today and they gave me my money back.im fixin to order the tf-100 and be done with it!
buzzbait

Postby buzzbait » Thu 16 Aug, 2007 23:32

It's official Im the new pool/lawn boy!
I went and snuck some water the morning of closeing(Wensday).The pool guy had not been there.I tested free chlorine at 0.5.I added a big bottle (Like 120oz?)of GV ultra 6% bleech.That afternoon the FC was up to 4.0.Ok,tonight my tf-100 came in.The numbers are a bit shakey!

FC-0.5
CC-0
TC-0.5
PH-7.8
TA-180
CH-140
CYA-???I used all the solution and still could faintly see the dot!???
Temp 88
I just added a jug of bleach so the Chlorine should be back up in the morning but what about that TA and how can I get the cya up fast?
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Postby chem geek » Fri 17 Aug, 2007 00:23

There are essentially four different ways to add CYA:

1) Add Cyanuric Acid (CYA) directly. The problem is that CYA is very slow to dissolve. To have it dissolve in a day or two, put it into some pantyhose or sock and hang it into the water in the return water flow. Alternatively, put it in panty hose or skimmer sock and put it into the skimmer. Remember that the CYA is acidic, but with your high TA that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Be sure and keep the pump running 24/7 until it fully dissolves.

2) Add Dichlor since every 1 ppm FC increase also increases CYA by 0.9 ppm. Dichlor dissolves quickly so you could readily add 10 ppm at one shot then just add more Dichlor over time to keep the FC up until the CYA accumulates to the desired amount. Dichlor is more acidic than the CYA when one accounts for chlorine usage, but again with your high TA that shouldn't be a problem.

3) Use Trichlor pucks/tabs. This is probably the worst option since it's slow and Trichlor is highly acidic and for every 1 ppm FC increase you only get CYA to go up by 0.6 ppm so is less efficient at raising CYA than Dichlor.

4) Use Natural Chemistry Instant Pool Water Conditioner available from many sources (see this one ). This is a salt of CYA so is relatively pH neutral and dissolves quickly. This is a great solution for quick CYA increase, but is more expensive.

Though most people go with option #1, I personally like the idea of option #2 since it conveniently adds chlorine as well as CYA, but option #4 is the fastest way to add only CYA but is most expensive. Up to you.
buzzbait

Postby buzzbait » Fri 17 Aug, 2007 22:51

I bought 5lbs of 100% CYA since I already had a bunch of bleach and this evening I put 3lbs into two pantyhose and hung them into the water in the return water flow liked formentioned.How long do ya think I should wait til I cheak the CYA agin?
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Postby chem geek » Sat 18 Aug, 2007 02:27

If you measured the correct amount, wait 2 days until after it has fully dissolved. Some of it will get trapped in the filter even after its dissolved in the sock or panty hose and will continue to dissolve from the filter. This may be conservative, but unless you've got lots of CYA reagent, it's better to wait than see that it is still changing (rising).
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Postby Backglass » Sat 18 Aug, 2007 10:10

chem geek wrote:unless you've got lots of CYA reagent, it's better to wait than see that it is still changing (rising).


Speaking of CYA reagent, I blew through mine pretty fast opening my pool and getting my CYA correct.

I found big 16oz bottles of Taylor CYA R-0013 reagent HERE for $5.49. Thats enough for several seasons! You do have to pay $5.00 shipping though so it's best to order several things at once, but even $10.49 is a better price than most for that size.
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I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com

Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.
buzzbait

Postby buzzbait » Sat 18 Aug, 2007 21:56

Yea!Im going through the CYA reagent quick!

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