24' overlap liner appears to be too small

Liner issues and problems installing or
maintaining above ground swimming pools.
chumley
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Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:29
Location: Manitoba, Canada

24' overlap liner appears to be too small

Postby chumley » Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:50

I am new to this forum (looks like a great forum) and have as many others appear to have a liner issue. I purchased a used 24' round abg pool late last fall, was unable to start the ground work to install it due to extremely bad wet weather. I did order a new liner to install (off the net - looked like a good deal and was a thicker liner than I could buy locally). I excavated the base out, installed a nice thick base including 3' around the perimeter, packed it with a compactor. Installed the blocks to support the legs, they are laser levelled, installed the wall, 2" of compacted playground sand and bought the prefab coves. I attempted to install the liner after spending much time ensuring it was virtually wrinkle free. I did notice the base to wall seam seemed to be about 8" in from the wall all around the pool. I hung the liner over the wall, placing the coping strip over it as I moved along (I only left a few inches over the wall) and then as I moved further along I placed the top rails loosely but on top to provide support for the walls (is this wrong?). When I got about half way around I could see things were not going well as the liner bottom appeared to be shifting and the liner was getting tighter at the wall. By the time I got about 10' away from where I started I could play a tune on the liner that was left to install and there was no way that liner was going to go on the last 10' :cry: I tried to no avail. Tried to figure out what was wrong. The base, walls, everthing was installed textbook. I argued with the place I bought it from, sent them pictures of my 24' pool with a tape measure across it and showing them the liner would not fit. I also showed them a tape measure across the seam to seam at the bottom and it was 22'2". They finally got another one ordered up from their supplier and after a couple of weeks of waiting I finally got it (all the while my walls were sitting up - I attached the top rail and fastened the top to bottom with about 4 uprights to hold it together and had a tarp over it). I attempted to install the next liner, but measure across the bottom this time. It was close to 24' - I thought great we are finally going to get this thing up. But as I again installed it things went great half way and then the same symptoms appeared with it being too tight. It was late in the evening I pulled down the liner, put my rails back together and tarped it, however a very bad storm blew in that night and knocked it down. Now I need more parts to repair it (waiting for them right now).
The big question is am I installing this wrong - should I maybe not put the top rail on behind as I install the liner? When I tried to pull the second liner over the wall, the wall was pulling inward and there was no way it would go over it. Anyone have any suggestions. I would appreciate it. My kids have had their summer ruined by all these problems:cry:


chumley
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:29
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Anyone successfully install an overlap liner?

Postby chumley » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 10:39

Before I posted I read a lot of the other posts and it appears to be a lot of liners out there that don't seem to fit properly. The common thing is a lot of responses say don't worry the liners will stretch. The other posts were all for beaded or j hook type liners. Does this hold true with overlaps as well? Should the liner sit nicely in without stressing the walls or should it be pulling them in until the water fills up and pushes out the walls? Have I done wrong in hanging the liner and installing the top rail behind to support the walls, thus not allowing the walls to "cave in" and allow the liner to somehow fit on and stretch out?
Can someone with experience in installing an overlap liner please give me some advice. I am wondering if I should be ordering a new liner right now or have I been installing them wrong by putting the rail on after installing the coping?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Litoq

Postby Litoq » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 11:25

Don't know about overlap liners but since you are having the same problem i had with my jbead, I guess the problem occurs with all types of liners. I don't think they were meant to fit exactly...I think they were made to stretch to fit. As mentioned in several posts before, install during a warm (hot is even better) sunny day. Try leaving it opened up in the sun for couple of hours before hanging it to let it warm up. Then hang it while at the same time pulling the part of the liner going on the wall edge, place the coping, then the top rail. Of course you will need another person to help you do this. As far as putting on the top rails, that's the way I did and it worked. Matter of fact, the rails were the only thing holding everything together and without it, all would cave in (I learned the hard way). I guess I could have bought some clamps and metal posts but I didn't want to spend more money then I had to.
Backglass
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Postby Backglass » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 14:02

Hmmm...when I replaced the overlap liner on my old 18' round above ground, I had MORE than enough liner. In fact I ended up cutting a bunch off after it was full because it looked so bad. The stretching thing is just for beaded liner...you are supposed to have some excess, thats why its called overlap.

I would call whoever you bought it from and complain.
===============================
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Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.
chumley
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:29
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Bad install procedure? or bad liner? Any Pro's out there?

Postby chumley » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 22:48

I thought the liner should fit in without having to stretch it and can't find anything in any instructions anyone has out there that shows anything other than hang the liner in the pool, smooth out wrinkles and add water.
Have any pro's out there installed a abg overlap liners and what's the consensus? Wrong installation procedure or another bad liner? I need to find out real soon because I need to know whether I should try one more time (when I get my replacement rails) to shoehorn the liner in or order a new one "one more time".
Thanks
Backglass
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Re: Bad install procedure? or bad liner? Any Pro's out there

Postby Backglass » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 23:04

chumley wrote:I thought the liner should fit in without having to stretch it and can't find anything in any instructions anyone has out there that shows anything other than hang the liner in the pool, smooth out wrinkles and add water.
Have any pro's out there installed a abg overlap liners and what's the consensus? Wrong installation procedure or another bad liner? I need to find out real soon because I need to know whether I should try one more time (when I get my replacement rails) to shoehorn the liner in or order a new one "one more time".
Thanks


Again...an overlap liner is supposed to "overlap". You should have at least 6 inches of liner all the way around on a flat bottom pool.

Now...if you have a "deep end" on your above ground pool or have dug into the earth at all, that's a whole different ballgame. Above ground liner sizes assume a flat bottom.
===============================

I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com



Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.
chumley
Pool Newbie
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Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:29
Location: Manitoba, Canada

No overlap here

Postby chumley » Thu 09 Aug, 2007 23:37

If that is the case (and everthing that I have seen in pictures it looks like you hang the pool over the walls by 6" or so and smooth out the liner and you're good to go), then methinks I have another bum liner. But what are the odds of that. I will buy one locally and eat the other one I guess, but I am gun shy.
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri 10 Aug, 2007 19:02

Sounds to me you are getting a crappy liner X's 2! I'd take pics of it and send them to the company and DEMAND your money back no IF's, AND's or BUT's about it!

I don't like being ripped off! Can't you tell??? :lol:
chumley
Pool Newbie
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Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2007 21:29
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Talked to an abg pool installer for local company

Postby chumley » Mon 13 Aug, 2007 12:24

I am still waiting for my parts to ship in so I can attempt to put my pool up again. In the mean time I went to one of the local pool companies and asked if I could talk to one of their installers. They took my name and the guy did call me back. I told him my story and he's going yep, yep - I'm going what do you me yep - he says he knows exactly what I am talking about with the liner appearing too tight to install and has seen it many times. He says you need to start installing the liner, put on the coping strip (remember this is an overlap type) and stretch on the liner as you hang it over the wall - heat helps, he says obviously the setting of the liner in the sun before and a hot sun during install helps but there are ways around it. He says stretch it before putting the coping on, then proceed following with the rails to stabilize the walls as I was doing. Continue until it is on. If you don't appear to have enough slack he says hot water poured on the liner will make it stretch. I am thinking a hair dryer might work well (a heat gun is way too hot). So I am going to give this a try with the apparent bum liner when I get my replacement rails and will post whether I am successful or not. If indeed I am sucessful, I would like to post where everyone can see it to prevent the grief I have gone through with this due to the lack of instructions out there (not here as this is a very valuable site) but I mean other resources on the net, etc. like pool installation instructions which do not meniton anything about this kind of issue which I would think would be fairly common.
In any event, we will see..... I will post an update (I am hoping successfully after an installation).
Thanks for the replies.
Backglass
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Re: Talked to an abg pool installer for local company

Postby Backglass » Mon 13 Aug, 2007 20:39

chumley wrote:He says you need to start installing the liner, put on the coping strip (remember this is an overlap type) and stretch on the liner as you hang it over the wall - heat helps, he says obviously the setting of the liner in the sun before and a hot sun during install helps but there are ways around it. He says stretch it before putting the coping on, then proceed following with the rails to stabilize the walls as I was doing.


Hmmm, well that wasn't my liner replacement experience. When I replaced the liner on my old 18' round above ground pool, it was so big I could have installed it in the dead of winter. I'll bet it hung over 12-14 inches all the way around. All I did was literally plop it in, start filling, and walk around smoothing out wrinkles as the water rose. After it was full, I installed the coping strips and sliced off the excess.

There must be a lot of variance from manufacture to manufacturer. I got mine from intheswim . com, but this was 6 years ago.
===============================

I'm no expert...just a long time pool owner. The real experts are at www . troublefreepool . com



Download Bleachcalc free at troublefreepool . com /files/BleachCalc262.exe and start saving money on chemicals.

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