high cya and water restriction

Algae problems in swimming pool water.
Green (cloudy) water or slimy pool walls.
Black algae. Mustard algae. Pink or white pool mold.
chem geek
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copper stains

Postby chem geek » Tue 21 Aug, 2007 00:43

Though you might have algae at some point, it certainly sounds like you've got precipitated copper. It won't form solid on the bottom of the pool unless there's a lot of it. It just turns water blue-green. The cloudiness from the pH Up (Soda Ash) is normal at first since it raises the pH and adds carbonates so causes calcium carbonate to precipitate (cloud the water) and that's white. This usually dissipates, but if it takes a long time to do so, then I suspect your pool is over-saturated in calcium carbonate.

So...get yourself one of those good test kits I mentioned and in the meantime have your water tested for the Total Alkalinity (TA) level and the Calcium Hardness (CH) level. I strongly suspect these are high which along with high pH will make the pool cloudy. Add in copper into the mix and the cloudiness will be blue-green. That just leaves the yellow/brown dust and though that sounds like yellow/mustard algae, I don't think it would grow with that much copper (and chlorine, even at high CYA) in the water. I'm guessing, it's something else, but let's clear up your pool's cloudiness and green first. Start with the floc (which requires the filter to be turned off after adding it and then you vacuum to waste what's on the bottom), then after the bulk junk is gone, lower the pH. Depending on your CH and TA results, you may be lowering the TA using the procedure I linked to earlier.

If you want to, you can take a turkey baster and try and collect a sample of the yellow/brown dust. If it's gritty, then it's sand or dirt, not algae. If it's grimy (in between gritty and slimy), then it's most likely pollen. If it's slimy, then it's most likely algae. Looking in a microscope (even a cheap one) will tell you for certain. Sand or dirt is solid and irregular in shape. Pollen is mostly solid, usually spherical, sometimes with spikes. Algae is usually more rectangular, semi-transparent especially at the edges, and often in clumps or filaments.

Richard


Ernie
Pool Newbie
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Joined: Thu 23 Aug, 2007 18:06

borax

Postby Ernie » Thu 23 Aug, 2007 18:53

It's called Supreme Plus which is PH neutral. It's put out by Pro-Team. What the advantage of this chemical is it takes the CO2, wich algea needs to grow, out if the water. For inital treatment put in 2lbs per 1,000 gallons. Also, use Pro-Team Shock and swim on a weekly basis. This has a trace of Supreme in the solution which will keep your level up throughout the year. Another advantage is by doing this when you close your pool and open it the following year it has a greater chance of being algae free.
chem geek
Pool Industry Leader
Pool Industry Leader
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 21:27
Location: San Rafael, California

borax and borates

Postby chem geek » Thu 23 Aug, 2007 21:03

Ernie,

Are you posting on the right thread? It sounds like you are answering a question that wasn't asked here, unless I'm missing something.

Proteam Supreme Plus is a combination of Proteam Supreme and Proteam pH Down. Proteam Supreme is Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate and is nearly identical to 20 Mule Team Borax found in grocery stores (it's Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate and except for needing to use 31% more by weight due to the extra water in it, it's the same chemical). The "Plus" adds Sodium Bisulfate acid so that the net product is more pH neutral. The net result from using this product is that it adds Borates to the pool.

A level of 30-50 ppm Borates in a pool acts as an algaecide, though is not as effective as a weekly dose of PolyQuat 60 algaecide. It is also an additional pH buffer, especially for rising pH. The part about reducing carbonates in the pool is pure bunk (and yes, I know that's what they say on some websites about the product, but it's just wrong). The original (not the Plus) Proteam Supreme raised the pH and higher pH has lower carbonates, but there are WAY more carbonates in the pool even at higher pH so this was never a limiting food for algae. Phosphates and nitrates are the usual limiting nutrients for algae in pools (especially the phosphates). The Borates work by being a direct algaecide -- in the water it's mostly Boric Acid which is the same chemical used to kill ants and other insects in traps.

The only downside to having Borates in the pool is that it is "on the edge" of first symptom toxicity for animals, specifically dogs that may drink from the pool every day.

Anyway, the use of Borates in the pool is certainly one option for an algaecide. One user on another forum reported that it kept his yellow/mustard algae away while another user on a different forum (this one?) reported that PolyQuat 60 kept his yellow/mustard algae away, but we simply don't have enough data to be definitive about this. There is no question that the algaecides help, but we don't know by how much, especially in the case of the Borates.

Richard

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