1 month with clody water

Algae problems in swimming pool water.
Green (cloudy) water or slimy pool walls.
Black algae. Mustard algae. Pink or white pool mold.
pool doctor

1 month with cloudy water

Postby pool doctor » Thu 27 Sep, 2007 12:29

any pool store should have it, don't get the kind that contains alum tho.
the brand i sell is POOL LIFE CLARIFYING FLOCCULANT. 1 qt for 40, 000 gals. it's not going to hurt to overdose with it either, you'll just have more sediment. add to pool(along with 4-8 gals. liquid chlorine), let it circulate for 1-2 hrs, shut the pump off and let the floc settle (anywhere from 8-72 hrs.) you'll visibly see when it has dropped. then vac to WASTE.


chem geek
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1 month with cloudy water

Postby chem geek » Thu 27 Sep, 2007 13:14

Don't forget to check out the pricing of 12.5% (or 10%) chlorinating liquid that your pool store may provide or that you may find at hardware stores (Home Depot, OSH, etc.). They may end up being cheaper. Remember that bleach is sold in 96 ounce (3/4 gallons) or sometimes 1.5 gallon containers while chlorinating liquid is in gallon containers. So an equivalent price for 12.5% chlorinating liquid by the gallon vs. 96 ounces of 6% bleach is 2.67 times (6% bleach is actually about 6.2% "trade %" which is how chlorinating liquid is measured). Also, only Clorox Regular Bleach (unscented) is registered with the EPA so they list their concentration as 6% sodium hypochlorite and also show 5.7% available chlorine. Generally, the "Ultra" off-brand bleach is also 6%, but they don't usually list that so you are taking your chances. The "Regular" off-brand bleach is sometimes only 3%.

As for the floc, it does work very well to more quickly clear a pool, but it isn't inexpensive, so it's a matter of choice. You can clear a pool through filtration and oxidation (at shock levels), but it does take longer and you have to have decent circulation. The only reason I refer to OMNI Liquid Floc Plus is that another pool maintenance person swore by it and several users have used it effectively. The "POOL LIFE CLARIFYING FLOCCULANT" Pool Doctor mentions may be just as good if not better. Poolife brand is made by Arch Chemicals but I cannot find an MSDS for it. Pool Doctor, if there are ingredients listed on the bottle, can you post them? I can then compare with OMNI Liquid Floc Plus which is simply "Cationic polymer blend (Proprietary)" -- the key thing I want to see is if it has alum in it (i.e. a traditional floc) or is a polymer. By the way, PolyQuat is also a cationic polymer and was originally sold as a clarifier before it was discovered that it was an effective algaecide so could be sold more profitably that way (since it requires weekly maintenance doses). Most modern clarifiers and flocculants are now stronger than PolyQuat, but using PolyQuat as an algaecide does have the additional benefit of a clarifier (though does not settle on the pool floor as with a traditional floc -- instead, particles get caught in the filter).

Richard
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu 27 Sep, 2007 13:37

WOW....I feel like I'm in chemistry class once again....thank you very much guys.......
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu 27 Sep, 2007 16:49

ok, so I've lowered the PH to 7.2 and I've put liquid sodium hypochlorite 10% from Home Depot, but I think I used too much, because my FC is now 40, did I screwed up? I'm running the pump all day and all night today. I hope the high FC do not screw up something else.
chem geek
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Cloudy Pool Water

Postby chem geek » Thu 27 Sep, 2007 21:55

If you did 1.7 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid, that would have added 12.5 ppm to your existing 11 ppm FC to get to around 24 ppm FC which would be correct. You used 10% chlorinating liquid so would have needed to add a little over 2 gallons. So unless you added a lot more than that or your pool isn't really 17,000 gallons, I don't know why your FC jumped so high.

At any rate, if it truly is 40 ppm, with your 60 ppm CYA it's technically equivalent to having only 1 ppm FC with no CYA so it's not a disaster by any means. Just let it drop on its own. By the way, how are you testing the Free Chlorine to determine that it's at 40 ppm? Perhaps if it's a store testing that with a colorimeter instead of a FAS-DPD test, it may not be accurate at that high a level.

Richard
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri 28 Sep, 2007 06:36

I've bought the TF-100 kit and I tested with that, the first reading yesterday was 4.1 FC way below the 11 reading from wednesday, and after I added the chlorine it was 40 FC, I added 4 gallons, I told my wife to add 2 gallons but i forgot I had told her, and I added the other 2 gallons....is it going to be ok?
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Cloudy Pool Water

Postby chem geek » Fri 28 Sep, 2007 15:15

Well at least now we know why it got so high. Yes your pool will be OK. Just make sure the pool is exposed to sunlight and the FC level will drop relatively quickly. Keep the pump running (at least during the day) to circulate the water as most of the chlorine breakdown from sunlight comes near the surface. I'm assuming you still have sun where you are this time of year :)

If for some reason the FC doesn't drop -- say you've got bad weather so no strong sunlight -- then we can force the FC to drop faster by adding a chlorine reducer, but just see how it goes today and remeasure tomorrow and report back here.

I know that 40 ppm FC sounds insane, but so long as your 60 ppm CYA measurement is reasonably accurate, the disinfecting chlorine level is no different than 1 ppm FC with no CYA which is very similar to many indoor pools (it's also similar to 21 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA). Yes, that's sort of high in that my wife always complains that her swimsuits degrade (elastic wears out) over one winter of use in an indoor pool while in our own outdoor pool with CYA there is virtually no degradation, but we're talking swimming 3-4 times per week during the winter for 5 months.

So relax for now and see how the FC drops over time. As I said, worst case we can force it down faster. Also, see how the cloudiness changes. The main thing that probably happened with the extra chlorine, other than the higher FC, is a high pH which will then drop back down as the FC gets used up. Fortunately, high pH (basic/alkaline) isn't nearly as much of a problem as low pH (acid).

I don't think you mentioned -- is your pool vinyl or plaster?

By the way, you may soon run out of R-0871 FAS-DPD titrating reagent even if you use the 10 ml sample to measure the high chlorine levels since at 40 ppm that would be 80 drops. You can instead use a 5 ml sample where each drop counts as 1 ppm FC and you'll use half the amount of reagent for the test while still be approximately accurate enough for the high FC level. Once the FC drops after you're done shocking, you can go back to using a 10 ml sample or 25 ml sample (10 ml sample has each drop count as 0.5 ppm while the 25 ml sample has each drop count as 0.2 ppm).

Richard
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri 28 Sep, 2007 15:58

thank you Richard, my pool is plaster and yes I used 80 drops of the reagent, my fingers got tired. The water this morning, before I came to work, was clearer but it still had white cloudiness, but was not green. I left the pump running all night long and all day today, so when I get home I will check it and do a FC test again, as sun light goes, well today was very sunny, so I know the FC is down, I will post my new readings later today if not tomorrow morning. So, for how long do I keep the FC of 24? and once the water is clear, where should I keep my readings by that I mean the FC, PH, CYA,TA?
chem geek
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Cloudy Pool Water

Postby chem geek » Fri 28 Sep, 2007 16:40

You will want to check your FC after the sun is off the pool in the evening and then again early in the morning so you can see if it drops overnight. If it does, by more than 1 ppm, then you're still either killing algae or oxidizing it. If it looks like all the algae is dead (no more green -- all gray/white) and it's taking too long to clear (i.e. your patience is running out) then you can use the floc as was suggested earlier, but let's wait to see how things look tomorrow before getting to that. Right now, the most important thing is to have all of this algae killed and it sounds like that is getting done.

You do need to start thinking about how you want to manage your pool long-term after we get this current issue cleared up. With the CYA of 60 ppm, you'll need to maintain about 7 ppm FC (absolute minimum of 4.5 ppm) to prevent algae using chlorine alone and you'll have to use a source of chlorine that doesn't add to CYA, such as bleach or chlorinating liquid. You'll need to add that frequently, probably every day or two, but can use The Liquidator to automate that (or can convert to a salt pool and get a saltwater chlorine generator, but that's a much bigger initial expense). The other option is to use a regular weekly dose of PolyQuat 60 algaecide which will let you operate at a lower FC level -- probably in the 2-3 ppm range though it will help prevent algae from forming even if you let the chlorine drop near zero for not too long. Another option is to use an expensive phosphate remover. You could also dilute some of the pool water to reduce the CYA level which would let you operate at a lower FC level, but you'd still need to maintain that FC level without fail unless you used an algaecide or phosphate remover.

By the way, what kind of filter do you have? Sand, DE, cartridge?

As for your readings, I assume you will use a hypochlorite source of chlorine in which case the pH target will be around 7.5 though you might let that drift up to around 7.7 if your pool has lots of aeration and you're fighting a rise in pH (though that is partially mitigated by a lower TA). The TA will be about 80, though as just stated if you have lots of aeration you might go lower. CYA is up to you, but affects the FC level you will need to maintain -- probably the 30-50 range is manageable, but if you are in an area with lots of sun then higher CYA values of 60-80 ppm help retain the chlorine more, even at higher FC levels, but that gets tricky unless you have some insurance (i.e. algaecide or phosphate remover). Calcium Hardness (CH) will depend on the other parameters, but will likely be around 200-300 though if you go with a TA lower than 80 than you'll have a CH that is somewhat higher (say, 400). The saturation index will be targeted to be around -0.2 to -0.1. Let's just take one step at a time and you can make some of these decisions later after your pool is cleared up.

Richard
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri 28 Sep, 2007 19:26

just came home from work, and my water is very blue and almost clear I can see the bottom and no algae to be seen any where, is just a little hazy in the white range. Tomorrow I will, run a full test on it, and will keep the chlorine at 24 just to be safe. How much is the liquidator? Their web side does not have a price. Richard, you rock!!!

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