piping for pool

Pool pumps, pool filters and the plumbing of
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megabyte29
Pool Newbie
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Joined: Sun 24 May, 2009 14:23
My Pool: Pentair 320 filter, hayward pump
Location: United States

Piping for pool

Postby megabyte29 » Sun 24 May, 2009 15:26

Hey you pool installers using flexi PVC. How do you attach it (glue it) to solid PVC pipe I mean doesnt it make a poor connection due to its flexible outer shell? I ask because where my flexi PVC connects to my solid PVC I get leaks im assuming that the union isnt tight and thats the cause is there known ways to seal the to pipes together or do you just use a ton of glue? How do you seal a leak once its started on this type of setup?


Me...
Swimming Pool Superstar
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Posts: 302
Joined: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:11

Piping for pool

Postby Me... » Mon 25 May, 2009 00:04

Never, ever, never ever forget primer. If you properly primer scrub and glue your joints they are pretty solid. A quick rub of glue only and you have a weak joint. Flex is a weaker joint but is fine if done properly and not subjected to a stressful bend. There is also a glue for rigid PVC and a glue for flex PVC. Gluing rigid is pretty fast and easy, the joints set in seconds. Flex usually wants to creep out and should be held together for a minute or so to be sure.
megabyte29
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun 24 May, 2009 14:23
My Pool: Pentair 320 filter, hayward pump
Location: United States

Piping for pool

Postby megabyte29 » Tue 26 May, 2009 07:03

Me... wrote:Never, ever, never ever forget primer. If you properly primer scrub and glue your joints they are pretty solid. A quick rub of glue only and you have a weak joint. Flex is a weaker joint but is fine if done properly and not subjected to a stressful bend. There is also a glue for rigid PVC and a glue for flex PVC. Gluing rigid is pretty fast and easy, the joints set in seconds. Flex usually wants to creep out and should be held together for a minute or so to be sure.


When you say primer do you mean the yellow part of the two part glue system (yellow and purple) or are you talking about something else?
Me...
Swimming Pool Superstar
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Posts: 302
Joined: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:11

Piping for pool

Postby Me... » Tue 26 May, 2009 10:22

You might have a glue that has those colors, I have not seen that one. Usually there is a clear or purple primer and a grey or clear glue. I have seen blue glue also and I imagine it must come in other colors for whatever reason.

There are different methods of gluing different pipes. PVC has that shiny coating you need to clean off in order for the glue to bond the pipe properly. The primer removes that coating and will presoften the pipe a bit.
megabyte29
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun 24 May, 2009 14:23
My Pool: Pentair 320 filter, hayward pump
Location: United States

Piping for pool

Postby megabyte29 » Wed 27 May, 2009 13:02

Outside of the can has yellow on the label typically called primer. Ive always used that although I have never cleaned the surface only sandpapered it for better grip.
Me...
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:11

Piping for pool

Postby Me... » Wed 27 May, 2009 16:40

You dont sandpaper it. There is a chemical bonding which takes place and although the sandpaper might help clean the glossy coating off the PVC it won't contribute to the bond. I have had to fix plumbing many many times (not mine btw LOL). When trying to remove a pipe from a fitting it is quite easy to tell the primed from unprimed joints. The primed ones are very difficult if not impossible to take apart. Unprimed ones are a couple of saw cuts and a quick chip with a small chisel or screwdriver.
Guest

piping for pool

Postby Guest » Sun 23 Aug, 2009 21:54

Christine -
I am having the same problems - 2 years in a row...we have replaced the lines once, and now the same thing this year...after a few months of no problems. We are told termites can do this. Really depressing.
gregthepoolguy

Re: piping for pool

Postby gregthepoolguy » Mon 24 Aug, 2009 18:54

Christine wrote:Help: We had the white poly piping put in our return line 3 years ago. Last year and again this year we have leaks and it looks like something is eating holes in the exterior of the pipe. We thought moles - but no evidence. We thought worms - but would they eat it? We cut the poly pipe and inserted pvc pipe, sealant, and clamps - hope that holds. The pipe is 12 ft. below the surface. Any ideas what could be eating holes in the poly pipe. It is white.



Ray1031 wrote:Most companies installing pools today "do" use the normal PVC, white, schedule 40 pipe when plumbing swimming pools. Depending on the size of your pool, these lines will usually be either 1 1/2" PVC or 2" PVC. Schedule 40 PVC is a perfectly acceptable plumbing material - provided a few simple rules are followed. First, they cannot sit on or against anything solid. They should not touch the pool walls, not should they lay on stone or cross tree roots. (Not here - pea gravel is an acceptable bed for the lines to run one, as is sand or clean fill dirt Stones and rocks are not.) The reason for this is that the pipes vibrate while water runs through them. This vibration will make them want to "settle" a little in the dirt around them. If they settle upon a large (or sharp) stone, or across a constantly growing and swelling tree root - they will eventually break. A break in hard (schedule 40) pvc can be bad news - since they do not normally tend to do so as a "local" thing, but tend to "shatter" along a length of pipe.

What that can mean to you is, more digging, more broken concrete, generally a larger hole to effect the necessary repair. This is because the repair "has to" begin before the break and completely replace whatever broken portion of pipe there is.

There are two other material generally used in plumbing swimming pools. One it a Polyethylene pipe. Usually black in color, it is more expensive and a bit more labor intensive to install than PVC. The reason for this is that any fitting used with this material are "insert" fitting. Rather than being simply glued in place, like PVC, these are held in place by 100% stainless steel clamps. Underground two clamps are used on every pipe end connecting to a fitting - this way, if any one ever fails (for whatever reason - and an extremely rare occurrence if properly installed) there is a back-up already in place. The primary advantage to this type of pipe is that it will actually "give" a little before it breaks - and when it does finally break, it is entirely "local" - usually requiring no more than a single foot of pipe, or a single insert fitting being replaced. (If used, a minimum 80 pound pressure rated pipe should be used underground.) This material has been used in pool plumbing since the 1940/50s. I routinely work on pools that have been in place for over 40 years that are plumbed in this material. 98% of them are still using their original plumbing.

The third material that seems to be coming in "vogue" in pool plumbing is most commonly called "Spa-flex" or PVC-flex pipe. It can come in a variety of colors, black, white, grey, brown, but they all share common features - rather than "rigid" like schedule 40 pipe, it is flexible and can bend around curves without fittings or heating and bending the pipe. It glues like standard PVC pipe though. Most commonly it is used in plumbing spas and hot tubs, but I have seen it used on swimming pools as well. Like the polyethylene pipe, it will normally give some before breaking, however, if it lays against a sharper stone or edge of metal, it will cut more easily that either of the other two materials. Like the polyethylene pipe though, if it does take a break or get holed - it is an entirely local thing and usually requires the same amount of material in effecting repairs.

I have probably confused you, but I hope this has helped ....
Try looking for examples of PVC/Spa flex pipe. For polyethylene pipe - try a google search - this material has been used for everything from 1/2" lines for sprinkler systems, up to massive 65" conduits for oil pipelines, sewer lines and such.

Ray



Christine
I own a pool service company in Maryland. I was called in to look for a leak in an inground pool.I found a flexible PVC pipe underground with many holes in it. It looks as though a small animal such as a mole or vole or termites have been eating it from the outside. I am looking into what it may be eating through the pipe. I will go to the pipe manufacturer to get some insite on this matter. If you have any more info, please write back.
CDub

piping for pool

Postby CDub » Mon 17 May, 2010 18:37

Termites are eating your Spa Flex and they won't stop til they get sucked in. Starts out as a few bubbles in the return lines and eventually there are so many holes that you lose prime. Termites aren't real smart but they can chew through soft pvc like butter. Any pool company burying spa flex in soil that could contain termites or carpenter ants should be taken out back and beat silly. My lines are under my nice concrete deck so replacing with proper Sched 40 will be expensive, anyone know of a way to replace the lines w/o tearing out the concrete?

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