Copper/oxidation systems

[david.herman64]

I'm building a new ingroung liner pool and was considering buying the eco smart system. Do these systems work. Or should I just use chlorine. What is best. Thanks for the help.

[Aquaclear-NZ]

theres plenty of reviews on ionisers here

I work in the wholesale industry in NZ, and we do sell an ionising unit and some people are determined to have them.
While they would be fine if you were the only person ever using the pool , this is usually not the case

You still have to run the same residule of sanitiser as you would without the ioniser, and refular water balance must be maintained

at the same time i will be happy to sell yo uthe equivilant of 2l of algaecide for around $300 each year ($60 retail), which is the cost of the replacement anodes

so in a nutshell - they dont offer any saving, or practical alternative to chlorine

[Me...]

Ion seems to be one more way people (not in the know) will try to get a system that claims to reduce or eliminate the so called problems of chlorine. Many if not most (of those in the know) will tell you that proper chemical testing, additions and levels will eliminate them too.

Now, Ion, like Salt Systems seem to work fine ............ IF ................... you do proper chemical, dosing and maintain proper levels. If you don't, you will all kinds of problems you would not have if you didn't have that system installed.

I have seen successful pools out there with just about any type of system or combination thereof. And I have seem disaster pools with none of them. You need to get a good test kit, learn it and use it regularly and get the chemistry regime and levels down pat. It seems people know more about their 20-30k car than they know about their 150k pool.

So test your fill water. Buy a chemical package that suits that water. It will be a type of chlorine, a type of pH control, Sodium Bicarb if your fill water is low, Calcium if your fill water is low and Cyanuric Acid if the pool is outdoors in the sun. So you see, there may be only 2 chemicals you need and as long as the filtration system is adequate for the pool size, location and bather load you will be fine.

Add Ion but watch it or your pool will get stained like crazy. Watch the TDS or the water may get too much continuity which will accelerate the process by which the electrodes are used up. It will supplement your chlorine very nicely.

Replace your chlorine with a SWG but make sure everything is bonded extremely well. Do not add Ion to a Salt Pool, see the TDS comment about continuity. It is still chlorine and still requires the same levels.

Add a UV system to supplement the chlorine. It will help nicely but it needs to be sized to properly handle 100% of the pool water flow. They are flow critical because proper exposure time of "stuff" to the UV light is required or it won't really do anything.

Add Ozone. I'll stop there because it my favorite hands down, light years ahead of the others and I will go on endlessly.

In any event, you NEED to understand your pools chemistry and maintain it properly.

[Rosco59]

aren,t you worried a little about the studies now coming out of the U.S. EPA and new England Journal of medicine re the exposure of humans to ozone,and damage to lungs,increased mortality.
I have seen systems in Europe in large commercial pool installations that have 10,000 litre stainless steel mixing chambers after the ozone generators to make sure all the ozone is thouroughly mixed and depleted.
However on most residential pools that,s not the case. it,s straight out the eyeballs.
Spa,s may be an even worse problem for ozone with shorter plumbing.
Did you ever see eyeballs , jets , and vinyl head cushions badly ozonated.

[Me...]

Rosco, you just described the worst thing a lot of people in the industry did to damage the Ozone reputation. Ozone needs to be injected into a mixing/contact chamber to do its job and only then released back into the pool. Of course this costs more money and so in an effort to sell generators they made them smaller and crammed them into situations they should not be in. Worse, they were sold as a chlorine alternative. Word spreads pretty fast and soon many had crappy Ozone "systems" that didn't live up to expectations.

Looking for a way to try and describe it in principle I have this poor explanation. If you take gas and it doesn't work well because the octane is too low, it is because there is not enough octane added for the volume of gas. Ozone works the same in that if you don't have enough Ozone in a given volume of water it won't work very well either. Hence the need for system where you can control the amount of Ozone and water it works in. Put a given dose of Ozone in a controlled volume of water and it works extremely well.

Take some Ozone and pump it right into the water and yes it will discolor fittings, eat equipment and destroy covers. And if it is powerful enough and you are right at return where it is bubbling up you will smell it. One good thing about this scenario is that most of those type of generators have very limited lifespans and so the damage doesn't go on for long periods.

[Guest]

So how should I go about choosing an ozone system for my pool?

40.000 gallons inground plastered.

Which units have a mixing chamber?

I have a 2 hp pump running 8-12 hour daily cycles depending on the heat.

[Me...]

49k is a big pool. Residential? If so then I guess I would look at 36 filter as it is the biggest residential sand filter. Your 2hp would be about right I guess but a good 1.5hp would do and hopefully and single lines carrying the full flow will be 2.5" if not 3" We would be trying to up to 140gpm. As usual, 2-speed pump and used on low except when required. And it would run 24/7 for less that you will spend on the 8hr days you use now.

Now, low speed would be about 1/2 that so a good solid 60gpm I would think. You need a booster pump for the Ozone to make it work properly and maintain given flow. 1/2hp would be good enough because through a venturi we would be only pushing about 20gpm in order to never overpower the lowest flow on the filter system. I love a good contact time of 4 minutes so minimum 80 gallon contact tank. A 3 to 5 gram per hour CD Ozone generator would be a great size. Air fed generators can be finicky and I lean heavily to oxygen fed systems to keep any issues to a minimum. They work much better, are more reliable and have higher concentrations. Of course they cost more money but doing a system like this will give you incomparable water and extremely low time and costs for water maintenance.

There is more to the design of course and if it was a heavy use pool or commercial the whole system needs to be better. But in a nutshell thats it. Previous to the expense of an Ozone system though I have to say with a good filtration system in place, a nice liquid feed chlorine/acid system is a great addition.

[ecosmarte]

The way to go is with ion/oxygen. O2 not O3 (Ozone is O3). Oxygen isn't toxic and does not damage liner, cover, or pool equipment. I have one of these systems and it makes the quality of the water unbelievably comfortable - silky. To be safely sanitized, water balance needs to be maintained with any pool sanitation method. The same is true of the ion/oxygen system. The quality of the water makes it worth the time to learn to use it - take my word for it. I've had it 4 years and I can't swim in any other kind of water.

[Aquaclear-NZ]

The way to go is with ion/oxygen. O2 not O3 (Ozone is O3). Oxygen isn't toxic and does not damage liner, cover, or pool equipment. I have one of these systems and it makes the quality of the water unbelievably comfortable - silky. To be safely sanitized, water balance needs to be maintained with any pool sanitation method. The same is true of the ion/oxygen system. The quality of the water makes it worth the time to learn to use it - take my word for it. I've had it 4 years and I can't swim in any other kind of water.

Again, like ozone your system has a shortfall, in that your oxygen does not stay in the water long enough, there is no difference between your system and an ioniser/ozone setup. You kill pathogenic bacteria as they pass over your electrode, and only water passing over the electrodes, and in a well designed pool, this only occurs on average every 4 turns - 2 days

Its been pretty well proven that ioniser and ozone systems are not suitable as standalone systems without a residual of sanitizer that is capable of killing bacteria on contact

[AlanGMyerson]

at the same time i will be happy to sell yo uthe equivilant of 2l of algaecide for around $300 each year ($60 retail), which is the cost of the replacement anodes

Aquaclear-NZ, do you use or sell any algaecide that contain Simazine?