Algae in condominium Homeowner's Association pool

Postby **Denali** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 22:24

Glad to hear about Lowe's. Some freebies would be nice.

As for electricity useage, that is beyond me. You are set up at 230v. I understand your president's concern on cost but really has to decide on whether she wants to pool cleaned up or not. You are doing what is needed to get it clear. Pools are an expense, no way around that.

Postby **Henry_R** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 23:58

Thanks anyway. No problemo.
If my numbers were right then our costs to run the pump 24/7 for a week is only $50.

Considering we were paying $200 plus chemicals per month for pool service and haven't had to pay that now for three months, just over $300 (when all is done it'll be that much) to get the pool back to normal including chemicals and electricity is cheap.

We put three 182oz bottles of bleach and 4lbs more of stabilizer in there a couple of hours ago.
The pool calculator said to add 2.6 bottles, but my neighbor poured all three 182oz bottles in there.
The FC level should go to 11 and shock level is 10 according to the calculator.

The reaction was much the same as Saturday night; it has begun to turn milky after some good agitation and with luck will start to get to bluish by morning as it had started to do on Sunday. I bought some Cal-Hypo based shock and my neighbor wants to throw it in there if it begins to clear up some.
I'm not happy about that. I'd rather wait until I can get a decent TC reading with my test kit then put in the shock to avoid over chlorination. Is there really such a thing when the TC was so low?

I'm trying to be conservative on what and how much we add. But am I being too conservative?
Should we throw the shock in there to reinforce the chlorine or leave it to settle?

Postby **Denali** » Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:02

Henry_R wrote:Thanks anyway. No problemo.
If my numbers were right then our costs to run the pump 24/7 for a week is only $50.

Considering we were paying $200 plus chemicals per month for pool service and haven't had to pay that now for three months, just over $300 (when all is done it'll be that much) to get the pool back to normal including chemicals and electricity is cheap.

We put three 182oz bottles of bleach and 4lbs more of stabilizer in there a couple of hours ago.
The pool calculator said to add 2.6 bottles, but my neighbor poured all three 182oz bottles in there.
The FC level should go to 11 and shock level is 10 according to the calculator.

The reaction was much the same as Saturday night; it has begun to turn milky after some good agitation and with luck will start to get to bluish by morning as it had started to do on Sunday. I bought some Cal-Hypo based shock and my neighbor wants to throw it in there if it begins to clear up some.
I'm not happy about that. I'd rather wait until I can get a decent TC reading with my test kit then put in the shock to avoid over chlorination. Is there really such a thing when the TC was so low?

I'm trying to be conservative on what and how much we add. But am I being too conservative?
Should we throw the shock in there to reinforce the chlorine or leave it to settle?

The goal here is to get the FC level to your shock level and keep it there. That involves testing and adding chlorine if needed, retesting and so on.

Lots of pool products list them as shock. Shock is something you do to the pool by adding chlorine. It doesn't take a product called shock to do it. Cal hypo is a form of chlorine. It does add to calcium hardness but used in small doses shouldn't be a problem. Normally you dissolve this stuff before adding in a bucket. It is slow dissolving so will cloud the pool if not pre-dissolved.

Really not a matter of being conservative or not. No need to go too far beyond shock level. More important to keep it at shock level until the pool is clear.

Postby **Henry_R** » Thu 11 Jun, 2009 08:06

I'm kinda frustrated this morning:
I just checked the chlorine, pH,CYA, and CH.
All are idea, CYA is at least 50. Hooray!
pH is stable at 7.2, TA is 120. TA is high side of normal, but ok.
CH is about 320-340ppm. That's within range too.

Chlorine is STILL reading as nil and the color is STILL green. ARG! :wtf:

I can understand the kit might be bleaching out after the amounts of chlorine I added last night,
but the color doesn't confirm that. It's seafoam green. If only the tests are bleaching out then why
on earth if the water green? Especially after adding 546oz of 6% chlorine?! The poolcalculator says the FC level should be 11.4 after that dosage.

How much CH does the Cal-Hypo add? I have two bags of CalHypo in powder shock form that's 46% chlorine. I'm going to have to do something. Bleach isn't working well enough obviously.
I'll have to try that calhypo next. I just don't want that CH to go too high.

Postby **Denali** » Thu 11 Jun, 2009 13:44

That is disappointing. Did the pool store test for copper? The persistent green color sure sounds like copper. If they did test for copper, post the level.

Can't find any info on how much calcium hardness it adds but 2 bags won't push your levels too high.

If this chlorine does make a difference in water clarity I think you'll have to consider using a chelator to bind the copper.

If you get a chance to take another pic of the pool water, please do and post it. Curious to see what it's looking like.

Postby **Henry_R** » Thu 11 Jun, 2009 19:48

I've been at a baseball game today and I had asked my neighbor to try to take a water sample to the pool store. She went to Leslie's pool supply this time; not where I went yesterday.

They gave her a "water analysis report"

Except for TAC and FAC which are both zero, all other parameters are nominal:
CH=220, CYA=60, TA=90, pH=7.2, TDS=750, phosphates=100

There is no test for copper on the report and the other pool store didn't test for it either.

Those test results are a bit different than mine. (See post from this morning.)
I read TC and FC as zero, but my test showed both higher TA and CH, but lower CYA.

It is normal for test results to vary over several hours?
I realise the tests are only as good as the tester and kits, but wow there is a difference.

They sold her two bags of "super shock" that is 70% calcium hypochlorite.

I just put the two bags of it into the deep end of the pool per the instructions.
I actually got a good amount near the skimmer since I suspect the reason to add to the deep
end is to get at the main drain. Ours of course isn't working if you'll recall.
The pump is running per the CYA container instructions to run for 48 hours and not backwash
so it'll be on at least until tomorrow night this time.

How soon after adding that stuff should I be able to take a test reading?
4 hours maybe?

Should I agitate the water or will this stuff disolve before sinking to the bottom as chlorine would?

Is getting a vacuum hose and vac'ing the pool perhaps what's missing? That's the only thing I *haven't* done. Maybe I'm missing some algae somewhere that I cannot see and it's growing back?

Postby **Henry_R** » Thu 11 Jun, 2009 23:21

DRAT! I checked at 11pm, over 4 hours after adding that super shock and the chlorine level and it's still low! It measures between 1 and 2ppm. It should be higher than this. :wtf:

is going on?! The CYA is at 60ppm now so why on earth can't we get the cal hypo super shock to "shock" the pool?

Is four hours not enough time to get a good reading? The stuff is 70% available chlorine vs the 54% of the other calhypo stuff I bought yesterday.

*edit*
I just added the 54% calhypo too now at 11:35pm or so. I stired the pool to make waves too since that
main drain isn't working and I'm certain now that's a factor that's being overlooked. The skimmer mustn't
be taking in enough water to get rid of all the algae with the chlorine.

Surely with all that chlorine something will show up by morning. If it doesn't we're just going to have to hire a professional... :cry:

The whole point of the chlorine bleach was to avoid having to hire a pro to clean it.
All of them we've talked to want to "dump the pool". I can't imagine they'd need to now, and from all I've read it shouldn't be necessary, but if the chlorine just won't increase even with CYA normal I guess there's no other choice, as long as they're ensured if it pops out of the ground.

I just can't help but wonder what we've done wrong?
Almost $130 in chemicals, and supplies and the pool just won't turn blue. :evil:

More bad bleach? The bleach I put in there last night was brand name Chlorox (6% sodium hypochlorite). I bought it from Costco. I find it difficult to believe their stock was old. I also can't believe 544 oz(3-182oz bottles) didn't work. :wtf:

The TC and FC levels were at zero in the morning though and checked at a pool store too.
And now 4 bags of cal-hypo shock. Twice as much as the bags indicate should be needed, and only 0.5-1ppm of TC and FC?
*end edit*

Postby **Denali** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 01:31

Hi,

I just went back over this whole thread to get a better feel. Twice you reported the water clearing/turning milky and both times you put a large does of chlorine in. The first time the CYA level was down so shock level is lower. The second time your neighbor added all the chlorine you had bought, not just what you thought would get you to shock level.

The odds of more bad chlorine would be very slim I'd say.

As the CYA level has gone up, so does your shock level. Try the pool calculator with your new CYA and check your recommended shock level.

Assuming we aren't dealing with copper in the water but with algae, then I would go to the full shock level if not beyond. Killing algae will consume your chlorine. The key is to keep the level at shock level by adding whenever needed.

In my own pool I had it good and green one time and I added a ton of chlorine. I expected a milky pool the next day with some chlorine left in the water. What I got was no change and no chlorine in the water. I knew I hadn't reached shock level for my pool and CYA level. When I did, the water got milky and I had a 0 FC reading that I quickly pushed back up to shock level.

What I"m saying is that I think you're not reaching your shock level for your new CYA level so the chlorine is consumed attacking the algae and you're pretty much spinning your wheels. In my own pool it took 16 gallons of 10% to kill the algae. It is a very large pool but when I reached the shock level for my pool, the algae died.

Draining is always an option. When I need chlorine I go 2 blocks and I have it. For you, I know, the process is quite different. Wish the results here were better.

Postby **Henry_R** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 11:06

I suspect you're right about not reaching shock level. However, I can WHY? On Wednesday the CYA was 25 and the calculator said shock level was 12. We added enough chlorine to bring it >12 by adding about 72oz more chlorine bleach than would have been needed. We also added CYA, but I thought that wasn't supposed to disolve for several days and for some reason it did and the CYA was higher yesterday morning. But the chlorine was zero again.

I tested it last night and it was around 1ppm, this morning it's showing low again maybe 0.5ppm.
The poolcalculator shows that 4lbs of 73% calhypo or 6lbs of 46% calhypo would be needed.
I used two bags of 70% and two of 46% which should be enough.

Obviously not, and I know why now. As you've said we're just not getting to shock level.
My neighbor is impatient. She's seeing all the money we've thrown at this pool and is telling
me we're going to end up going to a pool company if it doesn't clear up by today; it hasn't.

I'm going to take another sample to the first pool store I went to.
I trust them further to help me in what to do.

Dumping the pool is not an option we can do without hiring an insured pool service though.
All of them want $$$$ to do it.
If we crack it from doing it wrong we'd be liable and none of us wants that. Too bad too since it
would probably solve all these issues including being able to examine the main drain properly.

Thanks again and wish me luck in convincing my neighbor to buy 16 more gallons of the 6% clorine chlorox tonight. The poolcalculator says 7 of them would be enough; I'm now inclined to throw in
8 and see what happens.

Postby **mr_clean** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 13:14

are running the pump 24/7?
when running it less its way to hard to fight & will burn up chlorine faster.

have you backwashed?
should be done at least once a day if pool is green to clean filter so it can catch more algae.

have you checked the dates on bottles you are buying to add chlorine?
one difference between buying chlorine/bleech from "home-depot/wallmart/where ever" compared to pool supply store is this issue sometimes. Pool supply stores buy it from places making it fresh & the others buy it in bulk which can be sitting in a warehouse for a while or on a top shelf longer until needed.

The older it is the weaker it is.

I suggest buying 8-bags of shock & adding or 5-gal liquide chlorine and putting in a VERY heavy dose.

with a leak CH will always be changing like all the other chemical readings so shock should not be a worry.

if pool is clear but looks like pea soup then it's probably a metals problem & buying a sequestering agent/metal remover would get rid of it.

a new pic of water would help.

Postby **Henry_R** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 17:38

I took another sample of water to the pool store I visited on Wednesday. It's a local family owned shop vs the chains (leslies, warehouse, etc). I talked to one of the people who does pool service (we're outside their service area or I'd be looking to have this guy work for us) and he has recommended we "shock the hell out of it". He suggested at least 25lbs of cal-hypo to really kill all organics in the pool.
I had them test the water as I said: TC=3, TA=110, pH=about 7.3, CYA(stabilizer)=50, Copper=0
I specifically asked for a test of copper and the girl put a tablet in the water sample which did not
react enough to read so it was essentially zero. I didn't ask whether the chlorine test was for FAC or TC so I'm guessing it was TC.

I also managed to get the wiring cover for the timer and the trippers all for under $11. At least we don't have to run the pump 24/7 once the pool clears up some.

Postby **Henry_R** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 22:08

Well, your 8 bags of shock is the same thing my neighbor was told when she went to the Leslie's pool supply store. She also bought some expensive alcohol-polymer based algecide too and was told to dump the whole quart size bottle in there then shock with the 8 bags and run the pump at least 24 hours.

We did this and it seems to have worked, but with a major side effect: huge amounts of gunky foam that promtly made the filter pressure almost double. I backwashed before we added the chemicals just to be sure we wouldn't have to for the 24 hours the stuff would take to work. We had to backwash again to get the gunk from stopping up the skimmer intake.

We just got through directing literally tons of the gunk to the skimmer with the valve set to filter now that the filter pressure was returned to 12.5psi from the >22 it reached in less than 2 hours time.

I'm going to have to keep an eye on it until I'm sure it's not going to foam up again.
I took a water sample before and after the added chlorine and I think we might have done well this time.
Both FC and TC are at least 10 or more. TA and CH bleached out. pH is still nominal 7.3-7.5.

I hope this has done the trick. I really do. I'll take some pictures of the results in the morning if the results are good.

Postby **Denali** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 23:18

Glad to hear you got the covering for the time clock. Always makes me nervous to see the exposed wires.

Anxious to hear if the pool clears now. That would be great if you got some pictures up.

Postby **Henry_R** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 23:58

Yeah, having been zapped by 220V I'm painfully aware of that exposed wire issue. Also, I'm not sure what type of liability it would be if a pool service man were to get zapped or worse. Not to mention it cost under $6 to replace it.

I too hope the pool clears. Once it does we'll need to figure out what to do for normal chlorination and then weekly shock treatments. Trichlor is under $100 at Costco for 40lbs. We cannot buy it this weekend though as I don't have the money to put up in advance this time. The management company office isn't open on weekends so we have to wait until Monday to buy that large bucket.

We're thinking of just getting a few tablets and a floating feeder that can be ustilized until then though.
What should be be using for weekly shock though? I don't want to overstabilize of course if we can avoid it.

Postby **Denali** » Sat 13 Jun, 2009 01:06

Henry_R wrote:Yeah, having been zapped by 220V I'm painfully aware of that exposed wire issue. Also, I'm not sure what type of liability it would be if a pool service man were to get zapped or worse. Not to mention it cost under $6 to replace it.

I too hope the pool clears. Once it does we'll need to figure out what to do for normal chlorination and then weekly shock treatments. Trichlor is under $100 at Costco for 40lbs. We cannot buy it this weekend though as I don't have the money to put up in advance this time. The management company office isn't open on weekends so we have to wait until Monday to buy that large bucket.

We're thinking of just getting a few tablets and a floating feeder that can be ustilized until then though.
What should be be using for weekly shock though? I don't want to overstabilize of course if we can avoid it.

If you use the tablets you will overstabilize eventually. Although you do have a leak in the pool so that may keep the levels down. As long as you know to test and then chlorinate accordingly you can keep up with it.

I use liquid chlorine and tablets. I watch the CYA level closely and have had good luck with this. The tablets do also lower the pH of the water. In my pool this is a plus due to the water features that raise the pH.