troubleshooting pool heater

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Pool Clown
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Posts: 88
Joined: Thu 10 Sep, 2009 00:15
My Pool: Uses a Chlorine generator, not a Salt Water Generator (SWG).
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Troubleshooting pool heater

Postby Pool Clown » Sun 20 Sep, 2009 16:31

No, i'm sorry but you are incorrect. The banging is the water boiling in the heat exchanger, not the metal. When the water boils, it expands and thats the banging you hear, just before the high limit would interrupt the heater.

Look, I'm not here to prove what i know, nor to match wits with another tech. I was hoping to help Eric with his heater, But instead, I've been going back and forth with you about something not related (sufficient flow had been verified in the first post).

Lets move on shall we?


Factory warranty service for Pentair, Jandy, Raypak, Polaris, and Paramount pool cleaning systems.
PoolPro

troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Sun 20 Sep, 2009 21:23

Pool Clown wrote: Lets move on shall we?


No, you don't get to say
Pool Clown wrote: No, i'm sorry but you are incorrect.
and not have me reply.

Pool Clown wrote: The banging is the water boiling in the heat exchanger, not the metal. When the water boils, it expands and thats the banging you hear


Go boil some water; you will not hear any banging. The copper is especially susceptible to heat damage. It is the copper heat exchanger that is causing the noise. The copper is warping and expanding.

You said this
Pool Clown wrote: The heater would run till it hit the high limit (somewhere around 108).
. However, you contradict yourself when you say this
Pool Clown wrote: The banging is the water boiling in the heat exchanger, not the metal. When the water boils, it expands and thats the banging you hear, just before the high limit would interrupt the heater.


Water boils at 212 degrees F. If the high limit is going to shut the heater off at 108 F, then the water would never boil. So, which is it?
User avatar
Pool Clown
Swimming Pool Wizard
Swimming Pool Wizard
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu 10 Sep, 2009 00:15
My Pool: Uses a Chlorine generator, not a Salt Water Generator (SWG).
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Troubleshooting pool heater

Postby Pool Clown » Sun 20 Sep, 2009 22:02

I'm done here. You should ask around, "What the banging is in the heater? " And see what others say.
Factory warranty service for Pentair, Jandy, Raypak, Polaris, and Paramount pool cleaning systems.
PoolPro

troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Mon 21 Sep, 2009 01:09

OK, thanks for playing our little game. You will receive some nice consolation prizes.

I don't need to ask anyone, I know exactly what's going on.

Let's also remember that you are the one who first challenged my post, and that I was merely responding to your questioning of my advice. If you're not looking for a debate, don't start one.
User avatar
Pool Clown
Swimming Pool Wizard
Swimming Pool Wizard
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu 10 Sep, 2009 00:15
My Pool: Uses a Chlorine generator, not a Salt Water Generator (SWG).
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Troubleshooting pool heater

Postby Pool Clown » Mon 21 Sep, 2009 07:50

Sorry, but i found this amusing, and i just had to keep playing your little game...

poolpro wrote:Before you begin jumping safety switches...


This is you responding to me first. Not only do you have heaters wrong, You think others are "challenging" you first as well.

poolpro wrote:OK, thanks for playing our little game. You will receive some nice consolation prizes.

You think this is a game huh? I'll bet Eric doesn't think its a game.
poolpro wrote: I don't need to ask anyone,

Spoken like a true know it all. Thats right, stick your head in the sand.
poolpro wrote: I know exactly what's going on.

Too amusing for comment.
poolpro wrote: If you're not looking for a debate, don't start one.

Were you debating? I've been trying to offer advice here.
Factory warranty service for Pentair, Jandy, Raypak, Polaris, and Paramount pool cleaning systems.
PoolPro

Troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Mon 21 Sep, 2009 15:35

Pool Clown wrote: This is you responding to me first.


When I said, "Before you begin jumping safety switches", I was addressing the original poster. I was not addressing you. I was giving the original poster additional advice. It did not detract from your advice at all.

Pool Clown wrote: Not only do you have heaters wrong


Nothing that I have said is wrong.

Pool Clown wrote:Spoken like a true know it all


When I am sure about something, I do not need to waste time asking anyone else's opinion. If you feel the need to ask, then go right ahead.

Pool Clown wrote: Were you debating? I've been trying to offer advice here.


Obviously, we are debating. Most of your posting has been debating me, not offering advice to the original poster.
PoolPro

troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Mon 21 Sep, 2009 16:04

You still haven't explained how water is going to boil in the heater at 108 degrees F. Or, why water would make a banging sound when it boiled.

Pool Clown wrote: Your confusing me.


Yes, it's obvious that you are quite confused.
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Pool Clown
Swimming Pool Wizard
Swimming Pool Wizard
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu 10 Sep, 2009 00:15
My Pool: Uses a Chlorine generator, not a Salt Water Generator (SWG).
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Troubleshooting pool heater

Postby Pool Clown » Mon 21 Sep, 2009 20:48

PoolPro wrote:You still haven't explained how water is going to boil in the heater at 108 degrees F. Or, why water would make a banging sound when it boiled.

It's obvious that you don't want to listen to me, thats why I asked you to ask others. I still would like you to do this. If your'e sure that you are right, then there should not be a problem, or are you worried you will be wrong? Ask someone you trust in the industry. Thats how i found out the water boils, was by talking to tech support and going to countless seminars, Jandy, Raypak, Pentair. Are all these manufacturers wrong, and you are right? (no need to respond)

Pool Clown wrote: Your confusing me.


PoolPro wrote: it's obvious that you are quite confused.

Taken out of context of course... Why don't you quote the Whole post?
Pool Clown wrote: Your confusing me. First you say don't jump the pressure switch, then you say jump all of them??? Jumping the entire safety circuit does not tell you which safety switch is not working.


PoolPro wrote: I said, "Before you begin jumping safety switches", I was addressing the original poster. I was not addressing you.


Eric did not say anything about jumping safety switches, That was me.

PoolPro wrote: I was giving the original poster additional advice.


Advice in addition to who's?, if not mine? My post was the only one before your first post.
Factory warranty service for Pentair, Jandy, Raypak, Polaris, and Paramount pool cleaning systems.
PoolPro

troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Tue 22 Sep, 2009 01:00

Pool Clown wrote: Advice in addition to who's?, if not mine? My post was the only one before your first post.


Yes, it was in addition to yours. What's wrong with that? It did not contradict or detract from your advice.

Pool Pro wrote:"If the heater fires without good water flow, it WILL damage the heater."

Your response:
Pool Clown wrote: "Not really, the high limit(s) will shut the heater off before any damage would occur."


Pentair wrote:NOTICE: Heater operation with incorrect Pressure Switch setting may cause operation with no water flow. Operation of the heater without sufficient water flow may severely damage it.

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/MasterTempOM.pdf "

Hayward wrote:Caution: Never allow the main burner to operate more than five seconds with the filter system shut off. Serious damage to the heater will result. Anytime the heater bangs or knocks, it indicates a water void or lack of water flow. Shut off heater immediately if this occurs.

http://www.haywardnet.com/products/Manu ... ual285.pdf

Notice that it says "water void". That means NO water. If there is NO water, then the banging cannot be caused by boiling water.

Raypak wrote:WATER PRESSURE SWITCH
A water pressure switch is provided in the heater to shut off the burners in the event that water supply is
interrupted. It is very important to verify that the switch electrically opens and shuts off the gas valve when water flow to the heater is interrupted. Otherwise, rapid and severe damage will likely occur to the heater.

http://www.raypak.com/poolframe.htm

Notice that it says "rapid and severe damage will likely occur to the heater." It doesn't say anything about the high limit preventing heater damage, as you claim.
PoolPro

troubleshooting pool heater

Postby PoolPro » Tue 22 Sep, 2009 01:18

Pool Clown wrote:Thats how i found out the water boils, was by talking to tech support and going to countless seminars, Jandy, Raypak, Pentair.


I never said that the water doesn't boil. I said that the banging sound wasn't caused by boiling water. Provide a reference that says that the knocking or banging is caused by water boiling. I have already provided a reference that says "Water void"; that means "NO" water. I said that the banking or knocking was caused by the heat exchanger overheating and overexpanding, and being damaged. I also talk to tech support and take seminars and I have been doing pool service longer than you have.

I was pointing out your inconsistency. You are the one who implied that water would not boil. You are the one who said that the hi-limit would turn the heater off at 108 F. If the heater turns off at 108 F, then how is the water going to boil?

Pool Clown wrote:Are all these manufacturers wrong, and you are right?


Provide references where any manufacturer's statement supports your claims, or is inconsistent with mine. I have provided three references that contradict what you claim.

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