Pump and filter above pool level

Pool pumps, pool filters and the plumbing of
swimming pools. Sand filters, cartridge filters,
fabric filters and alternative filter media.
pablito3
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 03 May, 2010 02:50
My Pool: 8mtrs by 4mtrs. In ground. .75 horse motor. Sand filter.
Location: Spain

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby pablito3 » Mon 03 May, 2010 03:23

Hello all, HELP please. I had a pool built several years ago and it has been, for various reasons, a total disaster. My main problem, at the moment, is that the pool constructors, so called profesionals, placed the pump, filter and all electrics in a badly built hole in the ground. They neglected to put any drainage in this "hole in the ground" and, despite having a lid, the first winter it flooded with rainwater and cost me a new pump.
The floor of this "hole in the ground" started to break up and the filter started to lean due to the breaking floor. So, i decided to pull the pump, filter and electrics out of the hole. I filled the hole in put a decent concrete base at ground level and have re-installed pump, flter, electrics and plumbing on this base and intend building a housing round it which would also serve as storage for chemicals etc.
Now I realise that having the pump below pool level is ideal but read on the internet that above surface level is possible. I have installed a non return valve in the pipework pre pump. The only problem is that the pump only pumps if I take the top off the pump filter and pour water into it. Obviously I cant do that every time the pump is started.
Have I made a great mistake re-locating the pump above ground? The pump and filter are around a foot above the pool surface.
Any help, suggestions, ideas would be more than greatfully recieved. If I cant get the thing working satisfactorally I fear my next step is to fill the whole pool in as its been an ongoing nightmare to me.


User avatar
mas985
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue 08 Sep, 2009 10:40
Location: Pleasanton, CA, USA

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby mas985 » Mon 03 May, 2010 10:00

First, most pool equipment is installed at ground level so that is fairly normal. Do you know if ground level is significantly above the pool water level? It could be that the pump is just losing prime when it is shut off but it shouldn't. Air is getting into the lines from somewhere and if you fix that, then it might stay primed. Do you have solar and if so, do you have any check valves?

One more thing, what kind/model pump do you have? Could it be an above ground pump? That may be why the PB put it below grade.
Mark
Hydraulics 101 ; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets ; Pump Ed 101
18'x36' 20k gallon plaster/gunite pool, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, Solar Panels, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater
pablito3
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 03 May, 2010 02:50
My Pool: 8mtrs by 4mtrs. In ground. .75 horse motor. Sand filter.
Location: Spain

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby pablito3 » Mon 03 May, 2010 11:33

Hi Mark, many thanks for your reply. The pump is about a foot above surface level of the pool. When I relocated it I put a non return valve in the pipe work before the pump inlet side. I dont have solar. When you say a leak do you mean in the tubing or where? The pump is an ESPA Silen 75m.
I'm more than desperate with this so any further help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul.
pablito3
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 03 May, 2010 02:50
My Pool: 8mtrs by 4mtrs. In ground. .75 horse motor. Sand filter.
Location: Spain

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby pablito3 » Mon 03 May, 2010 11:35

By the way, Mark, I forgot to ask how do I check for air getting in?
Paul
User avatar
mas985
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue 08 Sep, 2009 10:40
Location: Pleasanton, CA, USA

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby mas985 » Mon 03 May, 2010 13:19

The pump should prime fine where it is and it should stay primed unles air enters the plumbing from somewhere. Air leaks can occur in many different locations but some of the common ones are the pump lid seal, pump drain plugs, valves or filter bands. Try some pool lube (silicon based) on the pump lid seal and the pump drain plugs to see if that helps. A few more questions might help diagnose the problem.

Do you also see air in the pump basket while the pump is on (shouldn't be any)?

When the pump is shut off, do you hear or see air entering the pump basket? Sometimes you can hear it entering from somewhere.
Mark
Hydraulics 101 ; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets ; Pump Ed 101
18'x36' 20k gallon plaster/gunite pool, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, Solar Panels, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater
pablito3
Pool Newbie
Pool Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 03 May, 2010 02:50
My Pool: 8mtrs by 4mtrs. In ground. .75 horse motor. Sand filter.
Location: Spain

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby pablito3 » Mon 03 May, 2010 21:49

Hi Mark and thanks again for your further reply. The water in the pump filter certainly looks "frothy" but how to tell if thats air? If it's any clue to my problem there is no pressure showing at all on the filter guage and if I bleed it it takes a long time to get the air out. Also there is no water in the sight glass on the six port valve during normal filtering but there is when backwashing. Is that normal? I'll change the robber seals on the pump and filter tomorrow and see how that goes.
By the way, what is the what looks like a drain valve at the bottom of both the pump and sand filter for?
While I'm comfortable with plumbing I'm totally ignorant on the workings of the pool system. The people that installed it gave me no information at all on running it. I only found out that there was a bleed valve at the rear of the pressure guage when a friend told me.
Thanks again for your help. Paul.
User avatar
mas985
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue 08 Sep, 2009 10:40
Location: Pleasanton, CA, USA

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby mas985 » Mon 03 May, 2010 22:30

Everything that you are describing indicates an air leak on the suction side of the pump. Try using a hose and pour water over various parts of the plumbing. If the churning water disapears, you have found where the leak is. Pump lid is the number one cause of the air leaks so check that first.
Mark
Hydraulics 101 ; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets ; Pump Ed 101
18'x36' 20k gallon plaster/gunite pool, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, Solar Panels, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater
Artsjoyces

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby Artsjoyces » Tue 10 Jun, 2014 18:42

Have an in ground pool with pump and filter 9.5 feet above water level. Have had to replace pump and/or motor 3 times (within 6 years). Is there any product available that I could get installed to help pump reprime after not running for 10-12 hours. It will not prime in 5 minutes and I think letting that continue will burn up another pump.
Guest

Pump and filter above pool level

Postby Guest » Wed 11 Jun, 2014 04:04

Artsjoyces wrote:Have an in ground pool with pump and filter 9.5 feet above water level.


With that high of a rise, you need a check valve installed on the pipe before the pump.

The check valve "locks" the water in place so it does not fall back down into the pool. When the pump turns on, the water is right there inside the pipe and the pump primes immediately so it does not burn up.

http://jandypoolproducts.com/pool-jandy ... valves.htm


hope this helps

Return to “Pool Pumps, Filters, Plumbing & Piping”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest