green cloudy pool water... HELP

Algae problems in swimming pool water.
Green (cloudy) water or slimy pool walls.
Black algae. Mustard algae. Pink or white pool mold.
lbridges
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 05 Dec, 2009 17:25
My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby lbridges » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 21:21

swimnsaveusa wrote:first off. If his/her CYA levels WERE too high, shocking to breakpoint would fix the problem as the reason they got to chlorine lock is from exclusive use of trichlor chlorination. second, as stated, a CYA of 93 is within acceptable levels and not the problem with the algae.
....


OK, which is it, the CYA level is too high from use of trichlor and they have chlorine lock (which is a BS concept), or the level of CYA is acceptable at 93?

To the OP - since you have conflicting opinions here, I suggest you look to an alternate source so you're not getting see-saw advice.

IMO, this link gives a pretty good description of what you are facing & how to fix it.


floridapooltech
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 22:47
My Pool: License # CPO34-283076
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby floridapooltech » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 21:29

lbridges wrote:
swimnsaveusa wrote:first off. If his/her CYA levels WERE too high, shocking to breakpoint would fix the problem as the reason they got to chlorine lock is from exclusive use of trichlor chlorination. second, as stated, a CYA of 93 is within acceptable levels and not the problem with the algae.
....


OK, which is it, the CYA level is too high from use of trichlor and they have chlorine lock (which is a BS concept), or the level of CYA is acceptable at 93?

To the OP - since you have conflicting opinions here, I suggest you look to an alternate source so you're not getting see-saw advice.

IMO, this link gives a pretty good description of what you are facing & how to fix it.


None of our responses had anything to do with us saying they have a high CYA level, that was only you, lbridges (hence us stating "IF" it were "in bold" too high). We have been strongly re-iterating the CYA of 93 is ACCEPTABLE. Yes, chlorine lock is a very real problem from the use of ONLY trichlor instead of using standard liquid bleach chlorine. At CYA levels over 100 the free chlorine levels drop drastically causing an ineffective or absent sanitizing capability. The only thing we have clearly been stating is more than likely, it's a nitrate issue, which is alleviated by dilution.
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

Specializing in pool service and pool repair
floridapooltech
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 22:47
My Pool: License # CPO34-283076
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby floridapooltech » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 21:38

HERE you will find some helpful information to use in the future when you are, in-fact finding yourself in a "chlorine lock" due to high CYA levels. This is caused by trichlor and dichlor which are high in CYA. The best form of chlorination is liquid chlorine, and calcium hypochlorite (cal-hypo) shock, with moderate use of tablets.


Also, straight from the NSPF (National Swimming Pool Foundation) website which is responsible for training legally certified pool operators (government regulated):

What is chlorine lock?

This is when all your free chlorine is tied up as combined chlorine. While combined chlorines will sanitize, they require much higher concentrations and longer contact with particles. They are what give off the typical chlorine smell. They can be extremely irritable to mucus membranes and can only be removed by two means. Either drain the pool and refill it (expensive and time consuming) or shocking the pool (raising the free chlorine level 7x higher than the combined chlorines or chlorine demand of the water).

Chlorine lock has also been tossed around as a term used to describe a pool that has a high level of chlorine and doesn't respond to shocking. However, this is only because if you don't add enough chlorine to raise the free level to 7x of the combined then you are just compounding the problem. By adding less than 7x of the combined chlorine you can not break the molecular bond of chloramines and this only serves to create more chloramines (combined chlorine). Source(s): http://www.nspf.com/
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

Specializing in pool service and pool repair
lbridges
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 05 Dec, 2009 17:25
My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby lbridges » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 22:19

I don't know how to respond since you used three differing definitions for chlorine lock in one post.

And for the record, I would be in the camp noted in the opening part of your linked article that does not believe in chlorine lock. BTW, their definition is the least likely to be true, "...chlorine lock occurs when the pH level of your swimming pool becomes unbalanced. The level of free chlorine, the unbounded portion of chlorine in your pool, rises to an abnormal level, indicating the chlorine's inability to perform correctly..."

That disagrees with your latter (and much better IMO) advice about the 7X FC addition.

Either we aren't understanding each others viewpoint, or we fundamentally disagree. Either way I don't think the OP is well served by trying to determine which of us understands their problem better.

I think the link I posted has yielded success many, many times, and I wish the OP success bringing the pool around to good use.
floridapooltech
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 22:47
My Pool: License # CPO34-283076
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby floridapooltech » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 22:53

This isn't the right place to argue who's right or who's wrong. The original post was trying to figure out the algae problems. As stated, a 93 CYA is not high enough to be an issue regarding the problem. I honestly believe the issue lies within nitrate levels which can only be solved through dilution. If you have a better answer, please by all means send your recommendations. Many pool service companies have clients pools within the 100 range and still manage to keep the pool clean as long as FC levels are correlated with the CYA, so I do not think the issue lies there. They already tried phosphate remover with no alleviated results (hopefully they were tested for first), I would imagine the filter was backwashed, pool is run with the recommended turnover times, FC levels are met I would assume. Other than Nitrates, what do you think? It is kind of hard to do a bunch of assumptions without a full panel test results posted on here and possibly some photo's to see what exactly we're dealing with.
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

Specializing in pool service and pool repair
lbridges
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 05 Dec, 2009 17:25
My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby lbridges » Sat 07 Aug, 2010 06:50

We agree a good set of test numbers is the only really valid starting place.

You seen to be a very rare sort, one with both a vested interest (the company link) as well as a willingness to help for free on a forum - so ask yourself - do you believe the pool store number of 93? It could easily be much higher depending on the test they are employing (I'm assuming turbidity). My personal test, and the one at my local pool store, has no numbers between 90 and 100, so 93???

The OP states the pool was shocked and 4 pounds of stabilized chlorine was added to reach an FC level of 7.5. With a CYA value of 93, the pool likely had insufficient FC before the lawn fertilization. And given the inaccuracies of the CYA test it could be easily be higher.

The fertilization might have tipped the scales toward algae given a too low FC level for the amount of CYA, but IMO something like Phosfree isn't going to fix it, and as far as I know there is no fix for nitrates other than drain and refill. And to fix the algae problem with such a high CYA value will take probably 50+ gallons of 6% bleach (corresponding number of liquid chlorine).

So ultimately I recommended following the advice at the link I posted as it was written a lot better than anything I could manage.
floridapooltech
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 22:47
My Pool: License # CPO34-283076
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby floridapooltech » Sat 07 Aug, 2010 09:09

lbridges wrote:We agree a good set of test numbers is the only really valid starting place.

You seen to be a very rare sort, one with both a vested interest (the company link) as well as a willingness to help for free on a forum - so ask yourself - do you believe the pool store number of 93? It could easily be much higher depending on the test they are employing (I'm assuming turbidity). My personal test, and the one at my local pool store, has no numbers between 90 and 100, so 93???

The OP states the pool was shocked and 4 pounds of stabilized chlorine was added to reach an FC level of 7.5. With a CYA value of 93, the pool likely had insufficient FC before the lawn fertilization. And given the inaccuracies of the CYA test it could be easily be higher.

The fertilization might have tipped the scales toward algae given a too low FC level for the amount of CYA, but IMO something like Phosfree isn't going to fix it, and as far as I know there is no fix for nitrates other than drain and refill. And to fix the algae problem with such a high CYA value will take probably 50+ gallons of 6% bleach (corresponding number of liquid chlorine).

So ultimately I recommended following the advice at the link I posted as it was written a lot better than anything I could manage.




The CYA reading of 93 means they either tested the water using Aquachek test strips have really good eyes and guessed at the color "in between" the 50 and 100, or used a micrometer to get the value of 93 (ok, not a funny joke). It would be a good ideal they take the test again to make sure they receive a positive result.

We are on here to help the community solve problems. A lot of pool owners that visit this forum know who we are, so in most cases, we are just answering their questions before they have the need to call one of our tech's. We aren't a chain store looking only to make a dollar and that's what makes us unique. We don't EVER push anyone to buy something they wouldn't need. We are trained to deal with nitrates & phosphates, and do not sell Natural Chemistry because it is inferior compared to SeaKlear or our PROtech blend (chain stores carry Natural Chemistry to gain several sales of it before the issue is finally fixed as it contains phosphates itself...). You are absolutely correct, with all the science, technology, and years fertilizers have been around....wouldn't you think they'd have a chemical or "easy" fix for fertilizer / nitrates? One would have thought so, yet you still have to dump water and replace with fresh. to be honest, with the CYA at 93 and only 4 lbs. of chlorine/shock, it sounds like they are using the typical Dichlor which shouldn't be used as it is high in both CYA and pH. If anything, liquid Chlorine or Calcium Hypochlorite (no CYA or pH jump) should always be used to shock a pool into a desired FC level. Also, you were stating 50+ gallons of 6% bleach...that's household bleach. Isn't your local pool store selling 12-15% chlorine at a decent price in your area? I can't believe it's less costly to use a bleach half as concentrated to equal the same amount?

Here's the option:

lbridges thinks it's CYA (I think), I think it's Nitrates (like he said everyone has an opinion). It may be a good ideal to compare these two options.

1. 50+ gallons of household bleach (if that's the fix) would cost what? $50 on average?? Would it be more cost effective to dump that in the pool, IF it actually is CYA to match the corresponding levels then let both slide back to a normal level, taking a chance that this may not fix your issue.

OR

2. Drain a good amount of water, then replacing with fresh, which will not only solve a possible CYA overdose, however solve the Nitrate problem if there is one at the same time. A little tip....if you call the city before filling your pool and tell them it's for filling your pool, they give you a huge discount on your water bill for the amount you tell them (not being wasted and no sewage fees).
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

Specializing in pool service and pool repair
lbridges
Swimming Pool Pro
Swimming Pool Pro
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 05 Dec, 2009 17:25
My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby lbridges » Sat 07 Aug, 2010 11:34

Earlier I suggested a drain and refill, so I second option #2 - on that we have firm agreement.

I only spoke to the estimate of 50 gallons of bleach, to be used over some number of days, to give the OP an idea of what they would face if they didn't/couldn't do a drain & refill.

And in my area you still pay full price for water, but they don't charge sewer, so it ends up being half price (in terms of the actual bill you pay), most definitely worth a call to city hall (or whomever).
floridapooltech
Swimming Pool Superstar
Swimming Pool Superstar
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 22:47
My Pool: License # CPO34-283076
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby floridapooltech » Sat 07 Aug, 2010 11:56

#2 is definitely the better option than continuing with the chemical cocktails the local store seems to find profitable. Hope this helps (and quickly)! only a month or so of swimming left :(
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

Specializing in pool service and pool repair
Connie346

green cloudy pool water... HELP

Postby Connie346 » Sat 07 Aug, 2010 12:49

OK, to clarify, 32oz Poolife phosphate remover and 32 oz SeaKlear Phosphate remover were added to the pool on 2 different days once last week and once this week. Also 4# stabilized chlorinate granules (sodium dichlor) were added last week. In addition we added 4 gal of 12.5% chlorine on 2 or 3 different occasions. No improvement.

However, today after adding a total of 15 gal of 12.5% chlorine in a 24 hr. period we are seeing an improvement....water has a blue hue, green seems to be more toward center/bottom drain.....we are excited to see this as it has been 2 1/2 weeks since it has looked this good ( and it doesn't look good yet, but I am encouraged). What to do next???? pH looks good at around 7.8 (may still be high due to shock), OTO test shows burnt orange color (still waiting for my Taylor kit)....we don't want to step back now since we see impovement. Should we add the 6-8" of replacement water now, (it is well water, which may contain iron/NOT city water)?? Should we add more chlorine tonight to be sure it stays high (sunny and 80 here today)??? Or do we just continue to filter and let the existing chlorine level work??? I appreciate all the posts, and am taking all opinions into account.....please advise if you can......thanks!!

Return to “Pool Algae & Green Pool Water”

Who is online at the Pool Help Forum

Users browsing this forum: DotNetDotCom.org [Bot] and 1 guest