Need Help with Pool Chemicals

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floridapooltech
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby floridapooltech » Sat 04 Sep, 2010 15:26

www wrote:Oh and my little OTH kit says PH of 6.4 or so. Still yellow - Hep A.


the baking soda may fix this too. put all those chems in I posted and have the water re-tested tomorrow (after the pump circulated the water).


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duraleigh
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby duraleigh » Sun 05 Sep, 2010 17:03

You should immediately get some chlorine in the pool. 2 small jugs of Clorox will do for now until you can do your own testing. Then, 1/2 of a small jug daily until your kit gets to you.

Next, get some 20 Mule Team Borax at the grocery store and raise your pH up to around 7.4 - 7.6.

Post back and tell us what your water looks like...Crystal clear? Cloudy? etc.
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby www » Mon 06 Sep, 2010 19:45

OK - After adding 8 lbs of baking soda, the TA shows 130 and the PH is at 7.2. I also added 1 1/2 large bottles of bleach (1.4 gal size). I only have the little OHO tester and it shows 3 for Chlorine. I don't know if that is FC or what. The Pool Calculator says I should shoot for 8?

I recalculated gal size of pool (it's fiberglass) and it is closer to 8000 gals.

Water is still crystal clear. No odor. I couldn't test water at pool store as it was closed yesterday and today.

Hopefully my better test kit will arrive sometime early this week.

Also, it looks like a calcium reading of 130 is fine for a fiberglass pool. The pool store had said to raise it, but the pool calculator says 120 - 150.

So should I be adding around 48 oz of liquid chlorine a day? I've removed all the 3" tabs from the system.

Thanks again
floridapooltech
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby floridapooltech » Mon 06 Sep, 2010 19:52

www wrote:OK - After adding 8 lbs of baking soda, the TA shows 130 and the PH is at 7.2. I also added 1 1/2 large bottles of bleach (1.4 gal size). I only have the little OHO tester and it shows 3 for Chlorine. I don't know if that is FC or what. The Pool Calculator says I should shoot for 8?

I recalculated gal size of pool (it's fiberglass) and it is closer to 8000 gals.

Water is still crystal clear. No odor. I couldn't test water at pool store as it was closed yesterday and today.

Hopefully my better test kit will arrive sometime early this week.

Also, it looks like a calcium reading of 130 is fine for a fiberglass pool. The pool store had said to raise it, but the pool calculator says 120 - 150.

So should I be adding around 48 oz of liquid chlorine a day? I've removed all the 3" tabs from the system.

Thanks again


Do not add any calcium to your pool. The "salesman" at your pool store is just trying to sell you something you don't need. Calcium is required for the shell health of a marcite, quartz, or similar type pool. Fiberglass and vinyl pools do not need calcium. I think he/she needs to go take a chemistry class (or two) or read a pool operator training manual. TA is 10 pts. too high, so a very little bit of acid may be needed to bring this down. If you do this, make sure you add it in a straight line (column) in the pool so it ONLY drops the TA, and leaves the pH alone!

Regarding your chlorine, Your CYA is about 2-3x higher then recommended levels of 30-50ppm., so you will need 2-3x the amount of FC in your pool until it comes down. Not sure how much your pool will need as you will have to monitor this, however you should be running between 6-9ppm until your CYA is back within normal ranges and you can level it off at 3ppm.
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James Watson

Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 01:32

Calcium can be useful for a fiberglass pool. Raising it to about 175 wouldn't hurt.

The TA of 130 is fine for now. You should leave it alone.

The pH at 7.2 is a little low. However, it should rise on its own. You should not do anything to raise it. I recommend a pH of about 7.6 to 7.8. If it goes higher, then you should lower it to about 7.6, and not lower.

The Cyanuric acid at 100 is a little high. You should drain some water and refill to lower it to less than 80 ppm. Until you do that, you should maintain your chlorine at 8 to 10 ppm. The chlorine should be maintained at about 7 to 8 percent of your cyanuric acid level.

When adding acid, always dilute the acid in water before adding it to the pool. Or, pour the acid into the stream coming out of your returns to make sure that the acid is well distributed. Do not pour the acid in a column, it will sink to the bottom and is not good for any pool surface.

You should not use tabs or dichlor as they both contain cyanuric acid. You should user liquid chlorine to maintain your chlorine level.
floridapooltech
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby floridapooltech » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 01:42

James Watson:

1. Calcium can be useful for a fiberglass pool. Raising it to about 175 wouldn't hurt.

-Why would you add calcium to a pool that is made of fiberglass? I would just like to know your reasoning. Nowhere is it "recommended" to have a 175 in a non gunite pool.

2. The TA of 130 is fine for now. You should leave it alone.

-Recommended levels of TA is 80-120, 130 is high, and therefore will promote deterioration and destruction of pool equipment and surfaces, as well as irritation to swimmers.


3. The Cyanuric acid at 100 is a little high. You should drain some water and refill to lower it to less than 80 ppm. Until you do that, you should maintain your chlorine at 8 to 10 ppm. The chlorine should be maintained at about 7 to 8 percent of your cyanuric acid level.

-There is no need for the homeowner at the moment to start diluting water. They are removing the source of CYA (trichlor tabs). Using liquid chlorine and other products CYA free for awhile will allow the CYA to lower on it's own. Dilution is expensive. If not immediately required, doesn't need to be done.


4. When adding acid, always dilute the acid in water before adding it to the pool. Or, pour the acid into the stream coming out of your returns to make sure that the acid is well distributed. Do not pour the acid in a column, it will sink to the bottom and is not good for any pool surface.

-Adding muriatic or non-fuming acid in a column will lower the TA level, and leave the pH alone. This practice has been recommended and practiced since the beginning of time. If you want to lower pH, then yes, allow the acid to distribute evenly throughout the pool.
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

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James Watson

Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 02:28

swimnsaveusa
-Why would you add calcium to a pool that is made of fiberglass? I would just like to know your reasoning.


1) I believe that some fiberglass contains calcium carbonate filler.
2) Maintaining a higher calcium level can help prevent cobalt from being leached from the fiberglass. Cobalt leaching can cause black cobalt stains.
3) A higher calcium level can help prevent metal staining of fiberglass.

swimnsaveusa
Nowhere is it "recommended" to have a 175 in a non gunite pool.


The pool calculator recommends a lower level of 220 ppm calcium for fiberglass

Calcium Hardness (C.H.) is the relative hardness of your pool water, and is measured in P.P.M. If the water is too soft, it will be aggressive and erode pool equipment such as heaters, ladders and even the gel coat finish. If the water is too hard, deposits will form on the pool equipment and finish. 300 to 350 P.P.M. is the proper hardness for your San Juan Pool and should be checked monthly.
http://www.sanjuanpools.net/Downloads/maintenance.doc


Target Range for Calcium Hardness is between (test and adjust monthly
 250 ppm – 500 ppm (Spring start up and Fall closing normal)
 300 ppm – 500 ppm (If staining or cosmetic problems are present)
In order to prevent staining and remove minerals that cause stains, the calcium hardness range should be at least 200 ppm or higher. http://www.royalfiberglasspools.com/mai ... 0Guide.pdf


swimnsaveusa
-Recommended levels of TA is 80-120, 130 is high, and therefore will promote deterioration and destruction of pool equipment and surfaces, as well as irritation to swimmers.

Completely wrong. 130 ppm is fine for TA and will not have any adverse effects.

swimnsaveusa
There is no need for the homeowner at the moment to start diluting water. They are removing the source of CYA (trichlor tabs). Using liquid chlorine and other products CYA free for awhile will allow the CYA to lower on it's own. Dilution is expensive. If not immediately required, doesn't need to be done.

100 ppm is too high. Draining and refilling about 2 feet of water won't be that expensive. And, a reading of 100 ppm for cyanuric acid usually means that the level is much higher.


swimnsaveusa
Adding muriatic or non-fuming acid in a column will lower the TA level, and leave the pH alone. This practice has been recommended and practiced since the beginning of time. If you want to lower pH, then yes, allow the acid to distribute evenly throughout the pool.

This method is a myth. It is also dangerous to the pool surface.
floridapooltech
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Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby floridapooltech » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 02:59

James Watson:

I seem to sense the vibe you're one of those that has to always be right. We will not be arguing this topic with you, if the homeowner wants to take your advise and not that of one of our tech's that is "by-the-book", so be it. It's just ridiculous that you come onto this forum not too long ago and seem to argue with all the pro's that have established themselves on here.

Thank you, and good day

-Joe B.
Pool Safety & Health Inspector,
Swim 'N Save USA, LLC.
Florida Pool Tech is a Florida certified service company headquartered in Tampa, Florida employing the best technicians and installers in the industry! Vist us at http://www.floridapooltech.com

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James Watson

Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 04:00

I have provided multiple references to back up my claims. You have provided nothing.

You claim to be "By-the-book". What book are you talking about?

swimnsaveusa
It's just ridiculous that you come onto this forum not too long ago and seem to argue with all the pro's that have established themselves on here.

Give examples. Cite examples of any advice I have given that you think is wrong.

swimnsaveusa
Pool Safety & Health Inspector

Wow, very impressive. A self-proclaimed title. Did you also have a shiny little badge made up to make it seem more legitimate?

swimnsaveusa
We will not be arguing this topic with you

If you knew what you were talking about, then you wouldn't have any problem supporting your position.

swimnsaveusa
I think he/she needs to go take a chemistry class (or two)

I think that you're the one who needs the classes. You do not know what you are talking about.
James Watson

Need Help with Pool Chemicals

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 04:27

swimnsaveusa
Adding muriatic or non-fuming acid in a column will lower the TA level, and leave the pH alone. This practice has been recommended and practiced since the beginning of time.


http://poolhelp.com/handouts/oB_Acid%20 ... andout.pdf

http://www.poolhelp.com/JSPSI_V1N2_16-30_AcidColumn.pdf

swimnsaveusa
Nowhere is it "recommended" to have a 175 in a non gunite pool.


Calcium Hardness
The recommended range is between 200-400 ppm for both plaster and fiberglass.
Reference 1


CH levels around 200-250 are recommended for fiberglass pools, to protect the gelcoat and somewhat reduce the severity of metal stains. Reference 2


Calcium helps fiberglass pools resist staining and cobalt spotting.
Reference 3

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