Chlorine not registering

Causes and cures for cloudy swimming pool water.
Milky pool water, white, pink, brown, purple, black cloudy water.
shhurs

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:43

I treated for a copper stain in my pool using "Stain Remover" from leslie's pool. In doing this I had to raise by alkaline level and lower my chlorine to zero. I treated with the product and let pump run for 3 days (as recommended). Pool clouded to where I can't see bottom. Water has been tested 4 times - with all levels being ideal except chlorine. Added Metal Remover. My stabilizer is now fine, my alkaline is fine, my ph is fine. As recommended I poured in 4 gallons (!) liquid chlorine and ran pump for 12 hours - no chlorine reading. I added 4 lb of shock and ran pump - no chlorine reading (now at 1.0). Cartridge filter has been cleaned. Pool is approx 13,500 gallons. I have NEVER had cloudy water and never had chemical reading problems. I can now see slightly see the bottom of pool Leslie's doesn't know what else I should do. Should I drain about 1/2 the water and add new? Temps have been about mid-50's - 60s at night. Getting to mid-70's to 80 at day. Concerned if I drain this much will it compromise the vinyl liner? Any advise


duraleigh
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Chlorine not registering

Postby duraleigh » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 12:02

There are many, many reasons for a pool to get cloudy. The way to get started solving it is to post up an accurate set of test numbers and let us take a look at them. We need...

Chlorine (I know,probably 0, but post it anyway)

combined chloramines

pH

CH (calcium Hardness)

TA (total alkalinity)

CYA (cyanuric acid) this is important.

Post up those numbers and we can help you clear your pool.
24x52 DIY concrete block and liner
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shhurs
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Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 12:42

Chlorine (I know,probably 0, but post it anyway) 0

combined chloramines 0

pH 7.4

CH (calcium Hardness) 250

TA (total alkalinity) 110

CYA (cyanuric acid) this is important. 30

Here is the info. Chlorine lock? Thanks
James Watson

Chlorine not registering

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 15:45

The stain remover was probably ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is a reducing agent. Reducing agents neutralize chlorine. Leslies Stain Remover

The lower chlorine levels have allowed algae to begin to grow.

You need to add enough chlorine to oxidize all of the ascorbic acid before your chlorine will begin to show.

Add enough liquid chlorine to raise your level by 5 ppm and retest in 1 hour. If the level is still low, add enough to raise it to 5 ppm. Keep doing this until your chlorine holds.

Normally, you would shock to get rid of algae, but in this instance, you need to be careful not to re-oxidize the copper back into a stain.

Before doing an ascorbic treatment, it is best to add a double dose of PolyQuat 60 algaecide to prevent algae. And, you should only need to allow the stain remover about 12 hours to work..
duraleigh
Swimming Pool Wizard
Swimming Pool Wizard
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat 07 Aug, 2010 23:26
My Pool: 24X52 DIY Concrete and liner
Location: Raleigh NC

Chlorine not registering

Postby duraleigh » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 21:43

shhurs,

I am only posting to agree with 100% of what James Watson has posted. :D
24x52 DIY concrete block and liner
1.5HP pump 925lb sand filter
http://www.tftestkits.net
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 22:14

how do I determine how much liquid chlorine I need to raise it 5 ppm?

Why do I need to use liquid chlorine and not a shock? Many thanks

shhurs
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 22:16

another thought. . . Can I just use bleach instead of using liquid chlorine from the pool supply? Will the liquid bleach do any damage to my vinyl liner? Maybe that's a dumb question considering all the chemicals that are already in pools. Just a question.

shhurs
James Watson

Chlorine not registering

Postby James Watson » Tue 07 Sep, 2010 23:22

Yes, you can use regular, unscented 6 % bleach for chlorination. Make sure that you do not get a special bleach such as splashless, or scented. Also, make sure that the label says sodium hypochlorite 6 %. Some cheap bleach is only 3 % or less.

You can use the Pool Calculator to calculate how much bleach or liquid chlorine to use.

Shock, such as calcium hypochlorite is more likely to cause the copper to come out of solution and restain the pool surface.

Note: Shock is something you do. There really isn't a product that is "shock", even though some products are labeled as "shock".
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Wed 08 Sep, 2010 12:21

I have 5 gallons in so far and no change. I'm supposed to be running the pump right?

I have 5 more gallons. After that !!!!!
James Watson

Chlorine not registering

Postby James Watson » Wed 08 Sep, 2010 13:21

Ok, so each time you have been adding 1 gallon, waiting an hour and then retesting?

What chlorine test do you use? If you don't have FAS-DPD, then the chlorine might be high enough to bleach out the reading. You definitely want to get a good FAS-DPD test kit.

Get an OTO chlorine test kit and test with that. You can get OTO at any pool, hardware or general store. OTO will confirm whether or not you actually have chlorine.

If the OTO does not show chlorine, then you just have to keep adding the bleach until it holds. Dilute one gallon of bleach about 10:1 in a plastic bucket and add it to the pool. Wait about 45 minutes to an hour and retest.

Algae can eat up chlorine pretty fast. Run the pump continuously.

How much ascorbic acid did you use?

What is the clarity of the water?
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Wed 08 Sep, 2010 13:55

I am using test strips, however, I took a sample into a pool store yesterday and it showed 1.0 reading of chlorine.

today, the strip is still white; all other reading are within ideal range.

water is slightly cloudy but has improved over the last week.

I used a total of 2 lb of ascorbic acid; (2 treatments total) over a one week period.

Next option is to drain about 6 inches and refill, right?
James Watson

Chlorine not registering

Postby James Watson » Wed 08 Sep, 2010 18:10

I don't see any reason to drain and refill. Keep adding chlorine until it holds. You should definitely get an FAS-DPD test kit, such as the Taylor K-2006. Test strips are not accurate or reliable.

You have to be very consistent about adding the chlorine to get ahead of this. You could be a little bit more aggressive about adding the chlorine, but that would risk causing the copper to come out of solution and re-stain.

Keep adding 1 gallon and retesting.

Note: Most bleach now comes in 96 ounce or 182 ounce bottles, so you have to estimate how much a gallon is.
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 07:46

I did go ahead and drain about 6 inches after seeing no results in testing after adding 5 gallons of bleach (6% regular). So I guess I need to start again. I don't believe there is an algae issue just need to get the chlorine adjusted so there isn't an algae issue.

A couple questions:
shhurs
Pool Care Proficient
Pool Care Proficient
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue 07 Sep, 2010 09:50
My Pool: 16 x 32 above ground, Kayak, vinyl liner, Haywood pump, cartridge filter
Location: St Louis MO

Chlorine not registering

Postby shhurs » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 07:52

I did go ahead and drain about 6 inches after seeing no results in testing after adding 5 gallons of bleach (6% regular and yes I've adjusted for the proper 128 oz (gallon)). So I guess I need to start again. I don't believe there is an algae issue just need to get the chlorine adjusted so there isn't an algae issue.

A couple questions:

- when adding the bleach do I need to dilute it or just add directly by broadcasting around the pool?
- we are scheduled to get alot of rain the next few days as a residual from a hurricane. Should I wait to attempt this again until after the rain?
- I only used 2 lbs. of stain remover; this seems like extreme measures of chlorine addition to correct this. Am I crazy in thinking that.
- Leslie's has been testing my water all along and all chemical readings are fine except the chlorine.
- If I have to add 10 or more gallons of chlorine/bleach does that seem "normal" for this type of problem?
- If I'm lucky enough to get this corrected, then I'll need to shock with a NON-calcium hypochlorite product, right?
- If all else fails can I just treat for end of season with algaecide, shock it, and winterize? Will anything chemically change in the retained water over the winter?

Sorry if I sound dumb with some of my questions.

shhurs
duraleigh
Swimming Pool Wizard
Swimming Pool Wizard
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat 07 Aug, 2010 23:26
My Pool: 24X52 DIY Concrete and liner
Location: Raleigh NC

Chlorine not registering

Postby duraleigh » Thu 09 Sep, 2010 08:56

- when adding the bleach do I need to dilute it or just add directly by broadcasting around the pool?
You can add it to the skimmer or preferably in front of a return, pump running. The flow from the return quickly disperses it.
- we are scheduled to get alot of rain the next few days as a residual from a hurricane. Should I wait to attempt this again until after the rain? Rain has far less effect on pool water chemistry than many seem to think....ignore it.
- I only used 2 lbs. of stain remover; this seems like extreme measures of chlorine addition to correct this. Am I crazy in thinking that. I'm not sure that's the total source of your chlorine loss so can't comment

- Leslie's has been testing my water all along and all chemical readings are fine except the chlorine. One of the issues that makes pool water maintenance difficult is the poor testing done by "pool stores". You would think just the opposite and go to them for definitive results but, with a good test kit (not strips) your own testing is ALWAYS superior, more reliable and cheaper....flat out do not trust pool store results.

- If I have to add 10 or more gallons of chlorine/bleach does that seem "normal" for this type of problem? It certainly can be. Again, I'm not certain that is the sole source of your chlorine consumption (you may have some algae in your water you cannot see) but here's a basic to ALWAYS remember.....chlorine is consumed by two things only.....organics in the pool and UV from the sun....that's it. If you could post a valid CYA test, we could tell how much (roughly) you are losing to the sun and therefore, have an idea if you have organics in the pool that is consuming your chlorine.

- If I'm lucky enough to get this corrected, then I'll need to shock with a NON-calcium hypochlorite product, right? Once this is corrected, you can maintain your pool so that you shouldn't need to shock.

- If all else fails can I just treat for end of season with algaecide, shock it, and winterize? Will anything chemically change in the retained water over the winter? I am not a fan of algaecides but that's not really your question. Essentially, nothing will change. However, if you do have algae (and both James Watson and I suspect you do), it may continue to flourish and give you a bigger mess in the Spring than you have now. The best thing you could do this fall is to get the copper content in your pool below .3ppm (point 3, not 3) so you can shock the pool normally in the Spring. The only way I know to do that is to partially drain and refill your pool or count on the winter rains to help you dilute it.
24x52 DIY concrete block and liner
1.5HP pump 925lb sand filter
http://www.tftestkits.net

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