Chlorine not registering

[James Watson]

A few more questions:

Do you know where the copper came from? Copper usually comes from a heater, copper algaecide or an ionizer.
Do you have a heater?
How big was the copper stain?
What did the stain look like?
What color was it?
Did the ascorbic acid work?
Is all of the stain gone?
Feel the liner, is it slippery, or does it feel clean?
Have you had the copper level tested?
What is the copper level?

[shhurs]

I have always been good about cleaning my cartridge filter - it is 3 yrs old and looks brand new. I did go ahead and soak it overnight recently so I thinks it's good.

shhurs

[shhurs]

Do you know where the copper came from? Copper usually comes from a heater, copper algaecide or an ionizer. I'm told that our area (midwest) can have some copper in the water; another thought was that maybe from the algaecide

Do you have a heater? No
How big was the copper stain? sporadic over the entire bottom
What did the stain look like? brownish, irregular shape. Didn't move like an algae would, when using Jack's magic test stain kit, the #2 kit (for copper and Iron) identified it

What color was it? brownish (not slimey)

Did the ascorbic acid work? at first no; that is why I treated with the remainder of the container (another 1 pound).

Is all of the stain gone? appears to be; my water is still not sparkling clear but appears to be gone

Feel the liner, is it slippery, or does it feel clean? my husband said below the water line feels a little slippery as compared to above the water line.

Have you had the copper level tested? Yes, Leslie's tested for metals (not specifically copper) but they said iron is not found in this area . I don't have that info with me but the clerk said it was within normal range.

What is the copper level? seems like it was .3

shhurs

[James Watson]

Copper is usually blue, green or black. The stain was probably not copper. It was most likely iron.

You can get your water back to clear. Just keep the filter on 24/7, and keep the chlorine at about 5 to 8. It might take another 20 gallons, but this will clear up as long as you are consistent.

If you get a chance, have the water tested specifically for copper and iron.

[shhurs]

should I brush down the wall surfaces (vinyl liner)?

So, when explained to me the copper and iron can pretty much be at a minimum acceptable level in our public water. More iron if in a rural area (which we are not) or if on a well (which we are not). Testing available at local pool supplier (I know you are fond of that), but don't know where else to go?

[shhurs]

You know i do have a current water analysis report with me. It reads:
fac .5
tac .5
cya 40
ta 100
ph 7.2
copper 0
iron 0 so if i had copper or iron i guess they're gone now!!!! Yipee
tds 1000
phosphates 1000

[James Watson]

Brushing would help. Be careful not to cut or puncture the liner with the brush. Sometimes sharp debris can get caught in the bristles and cause damage to the liner as you brush. Check the bristles often for sharp debris.

The slippery feeling on the vinyl is an organic biofilm. I think that it is probably algae, but I'm not 100 % sure. Either way, brushing and shocking will get rid of it. Vinyl should always feel squeaky clean.

Don't be concerned about the phosphates. Some stores will try to tell you that they need to be lowered, but they are not an issue as long as you maintain sufficient chlorine. For routine chlorine levels, you need to maintain about 7 to 8 percent of your cyanuric acid level. For a cyanuric acid level of 40, you need to maintain a consistent 3.0 ppm chlorine, or higher.

For shocking, you should be about 25 % of your cyanuric acid level. You should be maintaining between 5 and 10 ppm for your chlorine until this clears.

Don't be so sure that all of the metals are gone. They don't go away so easily, so you want to still be somewhat cautious when adding chemicals. I would advise against using calcium hypochlorite or sodium carbonate.

When adding liquid chlorine, I like to dilute at least 5 to 1 in a plastic bucket before adding it to the pool. When adding, you can get locally high concentrations that might cause a precipitation reaction.

I would also caution against adding chlorine through the skimmer. Cartridge filters can catch some metals. If chlorine is added through the skimmers, the metals in the filter might be forced back into the pool.

Be sure to clean the filter once you get this cleared up. Pay close attention to what the cartridge looks like to help identify what was in the water. Follow the cartridge cleaning procedure posted here. http://www.unicelfilters.com/pool_owner ... _users.asp

[James Watson]

You should get a spare cartridge so that you can clean one while the other one is in the filter. That way you can pull the dirty one and put in the spare one with no filter down time.

[shhurs]

well guys I got an OTO test and have good news (I think) - I do have chlorine at a 5.0+ level. Darn pool store! I turned my automatic feeder down to begin lowering the chlorine. I did have to order a Taylor test kit and am awaiting its arrival but purchased an OTO test as I said.

The water is still a bit cloudy as compared to my norm but the stain does appear to be gone. Maybe I'll get a clarifier and I probably should shock since I haven't done that in a while.

A pH test came with the OTO test and it only read 6.8 so I added soda ash to bring it's level up.

I am so relieved and at the same time upset with Leslie's. Thanks for your help. I have alot of bleach to return!!!

[lbridges]

Caveat - didn't read the whole thread.

If your chlorine is kept at a good level with respect to the amount of CYA you no longer need to shock (with possible exception of large pool party, yard waste getting dumped in etc.).

My current pool, and the previous one were never shocked.

[duraleigh]

Yeah, get your pH up to around 7.4 or so.

Why are you returning the bleach? It is the VERY best thing you can put in your pool for chlorination.

If your CYA is 40 as you report, you will need probably 2ppm of chlorine each day for the remainder of the swim season and bleach is the best way to add it.

[James Watson]

Your use of trichlor is what has caused your pH to drop so much. Trichlor also adds a lot of cyanuric acid. If you continue to use trichlor as your primary source of chlorine, your cyanuric acid will quickly get too high. I recommend that you only use trichlor when your cyanuric acid needs to be raised and the pH needs to be lowered.

As Duraleigh said, bleach is the best thing to use for routine chlorination.

For increasing pH, I advise against using pH increaser (soda ash, sodium carbonate). Soda ash causes the water to be cloudy, and could react with any metals in the water.

If you need to raise the pH, I recommend that you aerate. To aerate, point your return eyeball towards the pool surface. This will agitate the water and cause carbon dioxide to be off-gassed.

If aeration does not increase the pH enough, add about 4 pounds of baking soda and continue to aerate. Dissolve 2 pounds of the baking soda in 4 gallons of water and pour the solution into the pool. Do this twice to add 4 pounds.

You can also use Borax to raise your pH. Dissolve 1 pound of the Borax in 4 gallons of water and pour the solution into the pool. Do this twice to add 2 pounds.

With the FAS-DPD test kit, you will be able to keep your chlorine at the right level, and you should rarely, if ever, need to shock. In most cases, you would only have to slightly increase your chlorine for a short time instead of shocking.

You should maintain an FC of about 7 to 8 percent of your cyanuric acid level at all times. Your overnight FC (free chlorine) loss should only be about 1.0 ppm or less, and your CC (combined chlorine) should be 0.5 ppm or less.

The times you will need to elevate your chlorine will be when:

1) Your FC is allowed to drop below 7 % of your cyanuric acid level for more than 24 hours. Or
2) Your overnight FC loss is more than 1.0 to 1.5 ppm. Or
3) Your CC is higher than 0.5. Or
4) You get algae, or cloudiness you suspect is algae.

Elevated chlorine levels should be about 20 to 25 % of your cyanuric acid level. Shocking, which brings your chlorine level to about 40 % of your cyanuric acid level, should be avoided if possible.

Bleach is the best thing to use. Calcium hypochlorite should be avoided.

[shhurs]

My chlorine has gone up and held steady for 3-4 hours and then drops overnight. I do cycle the pump off during the night.

And, to confirm what I'm reading by duraleign and J Watson - you want me to continue to add 2 ppm of the chlorine bleach daily (I'll use the pool calculator to figure the ounces out). I guess I'll need to go back to the 1 gallon per hour to get the level back up first? Why does it drop after several hours?

I assume it's as safe to get in the pool with the addition of the bleach as it is the "pool store products?"

[duraleigh]

Why does it drop after several hours?

Chlorine is the one item that you test for that is a consumable item. pH, TA, CYA, and CH are reasonably constant but chlorine is depleted continuously and must be replaced

Importantly, it is depleted by ONLY two things.....1)sunlight and 2)organics (especially algae) that get into your water

[James Watson]

If you are using trichlor in a feeder, then the chlorine only feeds while the pump is on. When the pump is off, the trichlor continues to dissolve in the feeder, and when the pump turns back on, the concentrated chlorine in the feeder is added to the pool. This will cause what you are experiencing.

My advice is to stop using trichlor. Allow the tabs in the feeder to fully dissolve until they are gone, and then do not add any more to the feeder. Then, use bleach to maintain a Free Chlorine level of 25 % of your Cyanuric acid level until:

1) Your water is clear and
2) Your overnight FC (Free Chlorine) loss is less than 1.5 ppm and
3) Your CC (Combined Chlorine) is 0.5 or less.

You need to use the FAS-DPD test kit to do this properly. You should run the filter 24/7 until you achieve the above three things. It is safe to swim if your FC is at 25 % of your cyanuric acid or less, and the CC is 0.5 ppm or less.

The best time to add the bleach is at the end of the day after all swimming. You can add bleach before people swim. Add the bleach, wait 1 hour and retest. As long as the FC is at 25 % of your cyanuric acid or less, and the CC is 0.5 ppm or less, it is safe to swim.

Once you achieve the above objectives, you should maintain a Free Chlorine level that is at least 7.5 % of your cyanuric acid level. You should continue to monitor your overnight FC loss and CC levels and elevate your FC to 25 % of your Cyanuric acid level any time they are in excess of the previously mentioned standards.

You should continue to monitor your pH, Total Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness and Cyanuric acid. You should maintain them at the levels recommended by the pool calculator. You should maintain a CSI (Calcite Saturation Index) of about -0.4 to 0.0.

Have you received your FAS-DPD test kit yet?