The vf pump v flotsam

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ddalehileman

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby ddalehileman » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 11:25

We are considering the replacement of our 1 hp pump with a vf to save on the electric bill. However we're concerned that the lower rate of surface flow might not effectively conduct flotsam to the skimmer port as our Better Half is fussier than I upon this issue, still egoist that I am hoping its cleanliness might better appeal to the occasional guest while we're unwilling to perform the task manually and anyhow might forget

One vf owner reports that he addresses this apparent deficiency by running his vf at high speed for a couple of hours a day. As we run our existing pump only three hours anyhow, then it would seem the vf would offer little or no advantage

So we are soliciting comments on this matter from vf owners or other knowledgeable sources--thanks all


chem geek
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The vf pump v flotsam

Postby chem geek » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 14:04

Is your pool very small? 3 hours may not even be one turnover of the water. With the IntelliFlo VF, you would likely run at a very low and economical speed, but for longer to get to one turnover. You could even split into multiple pumping times over day and night so you don't have too much time with dead circulation to help distribute chemicals to keep the pool free of algae.

If you are only running your 1 HP for 3 hours a day, you probably aren't spending that much on electricity anyway, are you?
dalehileman

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby dalehileman » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 15:57

chem geek wrote:Is your pool very small?

35,000 gal

3 hours may not even be one turnover of the water.

Probably not, geek, but after 13 years at this rate everything seems ok though after occasionally experiencing a bit of algae I've recently taken to a mild shock once a week with good luck so far but we shall see

With the IntelliFlo VF, you would likely run at a very low and economical speed, but for longer to get to one turnover.

So I understand, the electricity consumption of course disproportionally smaller. However my concern at the moment is the effect of the lower rate on the motion of surface flotsam

You could even split into multiple pumping times over day and night so you don't have too much time with dead circulation to help distribute chemicals to keep the pool free of algae.

If I do switch to vf ad if I am forced to acquire a pump with all the necessary electronics I will most certainly consider your suggestion. But the practice wouldn't help much with the flotsam as we use a solar cover

If you are only running your 1 HP for 3 hours a day, you probably aren't spending that much on electricity anyway, are you?


That's the point of my thread. If I change to vf but still find I have to run it at high speed when I wish to clear flotsam then the vf might not provide much of a saving if any at all
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mas985
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The vf pump v flotsam

Postby mas985 » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 17:07

35,000 g pool and a 1 HP pump should have a turnover about 7 hours. You are turning over your pool less than a 1/2 turnover per day. I'm surprised that you don't have a lot of floaties. Also, circulation is not just about filtering the water it is also about mixing it to keep the chlorine evenly distributed. UV will slowly degrade chlorine, depending on CYA level, so if you are not mixing up the pool, parts can have significant drops in the chlorine level.

But on to energy savings.

Even if you set up the VF to run those same 3 hours at the same flow rate as your 1 HP (2980 RPM), then you would still save you about 7% in energy costs simply because the VF is more efficient at the same flow rate. However, if you just ran the VF two hours at 2980 RPM and four hours at 750 RPM, then you would save over 30% in total energy costs.

But all of this is moot since you say you use a solar cover so your skimmers really don't work well anyway. So you could just run the entire time at 750 RPM if you wanted and save 80%.
Mark
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lbridges
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My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby lbridges » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 17:52

ddalehileman wrote:...
So we are soliciting comments on this matter from vf owners or other knowledgeable sources--thanks all


And on another forum you are talking trash about the VF not being suitable for use in the desert environment.

So which is it; you don't know the VF, or you are an expert in the VF and just foolin' with the guys like mas985?

Or is it you are a lonely, lonely, troll (dalehileman quote:"...I've found opinions proffered on pool boards pretty cut-and-dried and have often been disappointed at the lack of controversy therein...)?
simiguy

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby simiguy » Thu 23 Sep, 2010 22:09

I think Dale shows promise at his thoughtful consideration of the problems. Howsomeever, I have to wonder if Dale's "Better Half" would prefer a low electric bill and occasionally asking Dale to do some skimming, vice a high electric bill and reportedly a small surface particulate count. Gotta give him credit for the exhaustive research, and his not being satisfied with 1 or 2 (or 50) testaments to the benefits of the Intelliflo!
dalehileman

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby dalehileman » Fri 24 Sep, 2010 15:49

Simi you're quite right about that and if a vf provides anywhere near the reputed saving I'd very seriously consider manually scooping. However I'm still leery about the vastly complex semiconductor microelectronic and power switching semiconductors that seem totally unnecessary and hoping in the meantime that the Industry might offer a 4-speed vf with of course conventional speed-control switch but none of the electronics

But thank you for your support in this prodigious maelstrom of pseudonymous aspersion
lbridges
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My Pool: Geometric 16K gal shotcrete w/exposed aggregate; Pentair EasyTouch w/wireless, 2 Intellibrites, VS-3050 pump, C&C 200 Filter, IC-40 SWG; Heliocol solar. Rocky's reel
Location: Space Coast, Florida

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby lbridges » Fri 24 Sep, 2010 16:50

simiguy wrote:I think Dale shows promise at his thoughtful consideration of the problems....


Ah, but you seem not to have visited other sites where he visits (until banned) making outlandish claims that he never backs up and/or he deliberately introduces topics to see if he can generate controversy (by itself nearly a definition of a troll). My favorite is his claim to have written a 77,000 word document, all in single syllables.

From the wiki (not a great source, but...) "...a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum..." See my quote above - it's not his first time. If you would like a list of links outlining examples, please PM me.

Edit: Before I through in the towel on dalehileman, I will offer one alternative challenge. Mr Hileman professes to be a retired engineer. Given his critique of electronics design, I presume him to have electrical engineer credentials. So, if he can produce an outline of how he would go about proving causality in Coulomb's Law (not the whole thing mind you, just a rational outline), I will apologize here and backtrack to any other site where we may have exchanged barbs. I would offer to review his text, but my writing skills are very much in question when compared to my engineering/science skills. I'll even give a hint, it's a homework problem from Jackson's text on electricity and magnetism - I forget the chapter/edition, but hey, it is a hint.
dalehileman

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby dalehileman » Sat 25 Sep, 2010 10:28

bridge I'm flattered by all the attention
Are you by chance acquainted with one waterbear
simiguy

The vf pump v flotsam

Postby simiguy » Sat 25 Sep, 2010 13:25

Hmmm. So lbridges, there's an educational requirement to post on a pool forum? Well, certainly I would fail as I really stopped at being a Maxwellian and still search endlessly for a GUT. But I digress. I do own a smallish pool (14k gal), and have been VERY impressed with the reduction in consumption that I've been able to achieve with the installation of the Intelliflo VS - on the order of $95 / month in overpriced SCE territory. Nonetheless, I was a skeptic until I saw compelling evidence on You-Tube (search "Intelliflo") - however, I have to admit an educated individual like yourself would find all sorts of flaws in the experiment - like the failure of the video to actually derive the equations vs rely solely on empirical evidence - and further the BLATANT disregard for consideration of whether the water that Dale has (given all of its apparent plant life) should be modeled as a Newtonian fluid or a Non-Newtonian fluid. However, I really hope to take this opportunity to further encourage Dale to explore to his heart is content, and then settle on the fact that minimalism is best and the excess consumption of his purportedly 10 year old pump is equivalent to driving an oil leaking, gas gulping Hummer at 115mph across an area known for the presence of desert tortoise while randomly shooting at the wild hares, jackalopes and meth heads.

Cheers.

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