Pump problem

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Phil.c
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Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Mon 23 May, 2022 03:36

I've been using Astralpool Victoria Plus pumps for about twenty years but lately they don't seems to last. I run my pump continuously from May to September and four hours a day the rest of the year.

My last pumps bearings went after about four years, my current pump, runs for hours but then trips the contact breaker fuse, the filter is clean, the bearings are good and it runs cold, so no overheating, but it looks like I need another new pump!

Has anyone any ideas, or recommendations regarding a new pump please.

(Edit) I've just run the pump for four hours without any problems, but when I set the timer for it to work at four 30 min. periods over night, in the morning it's tripped out?

pump.jpg
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Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Tue 24 May, 2022 00:33

I would go for an energy efficient variable speed pump. Or at least a variable speed drive for a single speed pump. These are normally soft start so dont trip breakers and will save a lot on electricty especially as you run 24h. Slower filtration is better filtration.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Tue 24 May, 2022 05:01

Thanks.
My pump has now been running for twenty four hours, it was tripping within eight half hour runs, so I assume it's the enitial startup with one of these that causes the trip, I'm wondering if an anti-surge plug will stop this, I think I have one somewhere, maybe worth a try :)

Re. A variable speed pump, if it's running for say half speed, this would maybe slow the heating of the pool because the water is passing slower over the heat converter??
Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Tue 24 May, 2022 06:52

Yes you would need to check the spec on the heater and put a FlowViz in to monitor the flow rate but outside of the heating times the flow can be reduced and will repay the cost of additional equipment, go on to produce big savings in electricity and an improvement in water quality.
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Tue 31 May, 2022 11:49

Another update, I fitted an anti-surge plug but the pump still cuts out.

This is strange, the pump will run for hours without cutting out, after many hours, I can switch it on and off many times and it still runs, if I put it on a four hours a day timer, nine times out of ten it will cut out the next day?

Re. a vari speed pump, I understand that compared to a normal pump running 24 hours, it will save money with electricity, but, compared to a normal pump running for say four hours to completely filter the pools water, if a vari speed pump is run for the same time and at half speed, it will only filter half the amount of water, so it needs to run eight hours, which to me is defeating the object as the electricity usage is higher?
Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Tue 31 May, 2022 16:28

You are completely mistaken. Running the filtration slower removes more dirt as slower filtration is better filtration. If a chef wants a clear consome they let the stock filter slowly, if they squeezed the filter they get a cloudy stock. You do not completely filter all of your water in 4 hours, the Gage and Bidwell law of dilution means 1 turnover of the water is only around 45% of the water actually going through the filter as filtered water is put back and mixed with the unfiltered water. 2 turnovers is about 65%, 3 turnovers about 80% and 4 turnovers about 94% ( I cant remember the exact numbers but thats pretty close) 5 turnovers is about 99%.
https://www.aquamagazine.com/service/ar ... ectiveness

Because of the pump square laws reducing the flow we can determine that a decrease in speed (rpm) by 50% will reduce the flow rate by 50%, but will reduce the power consumption to 12.5% of the original draw (an energy savings of 87.5%).
https://www.poolspanews.com/how-to/vari ... -savings_o

On my pool for example, I run my pool for 24 hours for the same cost as a standard single speed pump uses in just 2 hours but I turnover the water 4 times in 24 hours which results in much clearer water and much lower electricity bill. This has been carried out on 6 other pools I have engineered and calculates to 90+ % saving in electricity and clearer water. I engineer the pools for maximum efficiency so there other improvements hydraulically like using Dr Drydens Activate AFM media as that filters to 4-5 microns (4x better than sand) and the latest ng version down to 1 micron ( I am changing to the new version this year) also not using 90 degree knuckle bends but flow bends or 2x 45 degree bends to lower the headloss. The system runs at 0.5psi when clean and 1.5 psi when dirty, it all adds up to a super efficient setup with really clear water ( water clarity tested with a turbidity meter).
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Wed 01 Jun, 2022 01:33

Thanks for the in depth information.

As I mentioned, my pump still trips a fuse....for some reason, so it looks like a pump change to a multi speed one, can you recommend one that would match connections to the one pictured above? My pool is indoor and only used for four months a year.

As it's an indoor pool, how many hours would I need to run the pump for the eight months it's not in use?
Phil.c
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Wed 08 Jun, 2022 06:47

It seems lhat with a new Vari-speed pump I would need to alter the pipework, so another idea, seeing that the pump I have now cuts out now and again, I'm thinking of buying a vari-speed controller, maybe this would reduce the cutouts when the pump is at half speed?

https://www.jacksonsleisure.com/swimmin ... -inverter/
Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Wed 08 Jun, 2022 10:38

Possibly, clever pool pump inverters run full speed for a couple of minutes to generate a full speed prime before reducing to whatever you set it at. I think I maybe concerned because when a motor trips if often sends a spike (thats often what causes the trip) so could damage the inverter. What type of trip have you, they dont last forever so have you changed it
Likewise the capacitor (start/run) these are cheap parts that wear out so worth investigating. The clever pool is a good bit of kit for saving money but you could also use a flow gauge (FlowViz or similar) to check the flow is sufficient to turnover the pool properly
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Fri 08 Jul, 2022 02:36

I've just bought and installed a Certikin Clever-Pool Energy Saver, it's running now at 1200 rpm the slowest speed, I notice that the pump motor is very hot.

At this speed what would be the recommended running time, 24 hours or less?
Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Fri 08 Jul, 2022 23:13

It could be that the lowest setting means the rotor is not spinning fast enough for the fan on the end to cool properly so you may need to increase the speed a bit more. I would say run the pump as long as possible, I run 24/7 as the skimmers are working to remove debris instead of it becoming water logged and sinking. Biggest issue I found was emptying the skimmer baskets more frequently and devices with pressure switches had to be changed to flow switches as the pressure was too low to activate. What does your pressure gauge read?
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Posts: 181
Joined: Sun 11 Aug, 2019 03:48
My Pool: 28' x 10' indoor, liner, oil heater, sand filter.
Location: South Wales UK
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Sat 09 Jul, 2022 05:02

The start of this thread was to do with my pump cutting out, I think it has now come to the end of it's life with windings, as it now won't run at any speed lower than full, this is, I believe why the motor is getting so hot...untouchable in fact, so, I have a new pump on order.

Being an indoor pool I don't get any issues with skimmers as there's no debri.

My pressure guage is just a touch above zero.
Teapot1
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Teapot1 » Sat 09 Jul, 2022 06:07

Ok got it Phil, sadly it does seem to have given up the ghost if its that hot. Rest assured you'll still save back the cost of the variable speed drive in electricity with the new pump. I bought a 0-1 bar (14 psi ) gauges as the reading is too low to accurately see when a backwash is needed on my setup filtering is about 0.5psi and I backwash when the flow drops off from the flow meter or 1.5 - 2psi ish
I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but I will give an honest opinion of your situation as you decribe it.
Phil.c
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Posts: 181
Joined: Sun 11 Aug, 2019 03:48
My Pool: 28' x 10' indoor, liner, oil heater, sand filter.
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Phil.c » Sat 09 Jul, 2022 07:24

I've just realised that the pump I ordered is 3/4 HP instead of 1 HP which is what I have now, seeing as it will be on constant low speed I don't think that's a problem, except for vacuuming maybe?
Denniswiseman
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Re: Pump problem

Postby Denniswiseman » Sat 09 Jul, 2022 08:36

I had a 1 hp pump and I swapped for a 0.5 hp
The only thing I noticed was better filtration as it wasn't being forced through the filter

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