Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

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mknmike
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Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Tue 09 Aug, 2022 20:36

This fall is going to be time to drain the pool at the house I bought a little over a year ago. The main reason is to resurface the pool because it’s flaking. The tile was leaking a few weeks ago, but re-grouting it with white pool patch worked well. Last year I had about 18 tiles (15 on one short side, and 3 on another side nearby) were replaced after falling off after the pool was neglected for many years. The house was apparently vacant for at least three years. I was thrilled to get it up and running within two weeks as it was a major selling factor to my tenant that is now renting the house. This year I made it a bit better with the grout. I’m excited to continue making improvements.

The coping is mortared brick that extends about three feet on all four sides. I understand this is not ideal because the heaving of the earth will cause the coping to break away from the earth, but this pool has apparently been here like this since the 1950’s or early 1960’s. So being 60+ years old, it doesn’t seem so bad.

There are clearly patched cracks. One is a vertical crack that is at least 4 feet tall. It’s not cracked below the surface, but the tile was also cracked there, but is now grouted.

There’s a horizontal crack that I assume is from the earth heaving that is very long. I can see it a few inches below the tile, and that the painted surface is recessed, as if the crack was almost an inch thick at one time. I don’t know.

I have posted videos of the pool on YouTube user “mkn mike” over the past few weeks. I can post them here if anyone wants to see. You could also see my other threads.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to make a new one that discusses the decisions I’m trying to make:
1) whether to drain the pool this fall
2) when to drain the pool
- what surface to use? Easy and cheap paint makes sense, but draining the pool is an event I don’t want to do often. On the other hand, it seems this paint has held up pretty well. I’ve read stories about people using the wrong paint and creating nightmares, only to have to drain the pool mid season. So, re-plaster? Vinyl liner?
3) should I stick with Bromine after draining the pool? I have a piped in Brominator so I only have to add Bromine maybe once a month. That’s nice, but bromine is more expensive, and I think the pool does get a lot of sun. Chlorine surely seems more mainstream. I don’t even know how I would add it though. Maybe replace Brominator with Chlorinator?
4) should I just get all the coping re-done with an expansion joint?
5) should I replace all the tile I just grouted (in one weekend this summer)?

I hope to document the decisions I make, and hope it doesn’t turn into all talk and no action.


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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Tue 06 Sep, 2022 07:26

It’s now past Labor Day. My tenant claims to be moving out this month. The ground has been perhaps it’s detest in years… until today. I think we are supposed to get about 2” of rain today, tomorrow, etc. That gets me thinking that I should check how much of a pond the back yard is. The rear and side roofs dump to the back yard that has no real drainage. So there’s a real possibility IMO of hydrostatic pressure.

I need to determine what type of paint I have, and have that and all the materials ready for our next dry period.

I could hope for a dry spring, but worrying about the pool walls all winter long isn’t something that excites me too much.

I can call around to the pool pros to see if I can get a few quotes for resurfacing. It sounds like the job is an angle-grinder type of job. Doesn’t sound fun or cheap.
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Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Sun 11 Sep, 2022 08:29

I have not yet figured out what kind of paint I have in the pool, but I’m hoping for epoxy. This site makes chlorinated rubber sound like complete junk.

https://www.diypoolpaint.com.au/info-ba ... -vs-epoxy/


I am happy that I have discovered an easy way to drop the water level in my pool, which is to put a pipe/hose onto the outlet port on the wall, but the fact is that this will only get me down to the inlet port on the wall. I was thinking that I will have to switch to a sump pump to get anything lower, which is most of the water in the pool.

Just now as I am typing came up with the idea of attaching a hose to the wall suction so I could have the pump suck water out of the bottom of the pool. I won’t know if this will work until I try it. Air leaks could be a significant problem with this plan, but maybe some Teflon tape and hose clamps will help me make it happen. Another option is to buy another pool pump for this job (instead of a sump pump. A submersible sump pump might also have other handy uses though.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, this fall is shaping up to be far busier than I’d expected. I’m starting to wonder if there will be times that are better for my personal life to do this. Or perhaps I should just do the upper portion of the walls (to where we drop the level for winterization). That would make the whole thing seem a lot less stressful. I could just grind and paint small sections at a time and not worry about getting the pool re-filled.
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Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Sun 11 Sep, 2022 08:46

So, seeing that the pool needs to be acid-washed, it seems that just doing the top edges isn’t really an option. This means I may need to hire a pro, or at least laborers to make this happen.

Good video on acid-wash prep for epoxy paint:

https://youtu.be/PWQ6-Dv2Jtg

The Aussies made the acid wash look much easier, but this guy probably got by using less acid with the pressure sprayer, but probably atomized a lot more acid into the air.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJI2ZZQ6B0
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby Denniswiseman » Sun 11 Sep, 2022 13:07

mknmike wrote:Just now as I am typing came up with the idea of attaching a hose to the wall suction so I could have the pump suck water out of the bottom of the pool. I won’t know if this will work until I try it. Air leaks could be a significant problem with this plan, but maybe some Teflon tape and hose clamps will help me make it happen. Another option is to buy another pool pump for this job (instead of a sump pump. A submersible sump pump might also have other handy uses though.

You're right about air leaks and you would have to weigh the end of the hose down
If you have a main drain you could pump just from there
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Sun 11 Sep, 2022 16:22

Denniswiseman wrote:You're right about air leaks and you would have to weigh the end of the hose down
If you have a main drain you could pump just from there


I assume my “main drain” is just a hydrostatic relief. Having only owned the pool for a little over a year, I having confirmed what it does. I don’t see any extra pipes though, just four pipes (skimmer, wall suction, wall outlet, and wall outlet for robot). All of the wall ports are threaded.

I’ve used some flexible PVC drain tubing that I was able to attach to a threaded 90 on an outlet, and also to my my vacuum laying in the driveway to drain the pool before.

I imagine the flexible PVC would also work well to place near the bowl of the pool, but I’d need to setup a different drain pipe setup.

Heck, this would also allow me to drain the pool myself quick in the fall for winterization. I just need to determine the right height to leave the water and setup the hose end at that height and let it rip. :) I was concerned I NEEDED to hire my pool guy for winterization for this reason, but I could probably handle it myself. :)
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 01:39

There are loads of YouTube videos of swimming pool winterisation
A few hours spent sorting out what's best for you will show pitfalls and tips
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 06:41

Denniswiseman wrote:There are loads of YouTube videos of swimming pool winterisation
A few hours spent sorting out what's best for you will show pitfalls and tips

Thanks. I have not been concerned with winterization because I know my pool guy will take care of it quickly and efficiently. I’ve read that one of the main reasons people don’t winterize on their own is because their pool guy will come with a high power pump and get it done in minutes while it would take them a whole weekend. Part of this reason is the speed of a submersible compared to a high-powered pump. My pool pump might not be as high-powered as my pool guy’s traveling pump, but I think it’s close. And the point here was that I thought I had a problem with the concept of getting the water low enough.

Attaching a hose to the wall inlet eliminates that concern and enables me to close the pool perhaps as efficiently as my pool guy.



So onto the next topic…

Let’s just say I am all good with the resurfacing. I need to decide what kind of pool water I want to have after this is all done. Bromine. Chlorine. Salt-water. That’s where I’m getting a bit hung up at the moment.
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 07:01

Chlorine and saltwater are the same except that the chlorine comes from the salt water
So the decision is how much you spend on sodium hypochlorite against the cost of the SWCG and salt, also bearing in mind that the pump needs to be running to generate chlorine from the SWCG
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 08:00

Denniswiseman wrote:Chlorine and saltwater are the same except that the chlorine comes from the salt water
So the decision is how much you spend on sodium hypochlorite against the cost of the SWCG and salt, also bearing in mind that the pump needs to be running to generate chlorine from the SWCG

Right. Well, running the pump to get bromine into the pool is where I am right now with the brominator too. Plus the bromine seems crazy expensive at $450 a bucket. That one chemical is going to cost me $1000/year, maybe more. I see that the salt water chlorine generators don’t last forever though. If you have to pay $2000 every 5 years for the equipment, then that alone is $400/year. Right?
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby Denniswiseman » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 12:02

If you go for a SWCG go for one double the rated output for your pool because they are rated for 24/7
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Fri 23 Sep, 2022 07:34

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

A) Stick with Bromine. Wife canons she’s allergic to Chlorine, but probably just doesn’t like Chloramines. Thats one “pro” for Bromine, but there’s also the simplicity of not needing to change the system. I believe I read someone writing here that Bromine is also less safe than Chlorine.

B) Switch to plain old Chlorine. I think this might require I add some time of device to add chlorine to the pool over time, like some type of floating device, or perhaps there’s a “chlorinator” device I could add in the garage like our current Brominator. Maybe this is the cheapest bc there’s limited equipment needed and Chlorine is cheaper than Bromine… but do you end up needing more of it? I believe we make Chlorine in the US, but think I read that most Bromine is coming from Asia. I don’t know. Made in USA might be an argument for Chlorine over Bromine.

C) Salt Water Chlorine Generator. I don’t know how much this will cost, but I think the low-estimate for our pool size is 13,000 gallons. It’s ~16x28’ I think. Maybe 15.5’ not 16’. It’s got quarter round steps in the entry corner and about 3-4’ deep at the shallow end, and about 7’ deep at the depth of the bowl of the deep end. I understand salt is cheap. So maybe the great part here is that the chemicals required are the cheapest of all, but the SWCG (that doesn’t last forever) and the electricity consumption together might make this a more expensive option. I don’t know. I would think that my wife would like this option more than straight chlorine, perhaps even more than the Bromine.

What would YOU do?
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Re: Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby Denniswiseman » Fri 23 Sep, 2022 08:08

You only put salt in once and only have to top up when you backwash, splashout or dilution (top up or rain)
Chloramines are the used up part of chlorine so a properly sanitised pool shoudn't have any
Work out the maths for a pool twice the size for the SWCG and compare with sodium hypochlorite
If you are going to change do it after the pool is drained
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Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Fri 23 Sep, 2022 08:28

Denniswiseman wrote:If you are going to change do it after the pool is drained


Right.

I have two rental properties and it appears I’m not only losing the one, but the other two. And all three of my properties are going to be needing work this fall. Meanwhile the interest rate on the HELOC keeps going up. So anything I can DIY to keep down the level of debt is good. This may be a reason that I put off painting the pool this fall after all. I think the spring is often too wet to drain the pool too. I don’t know if it’s an option to do this type of work in the winter when freezing temperatures could be possible.

Add having not made the decision on the type of sanitization we should do and the currently-high bromine (and chlorine) costs, and perhaps I delay all of this another few months. I don’t know.

SWCG… I need to research the price for one able to do a ~30,000 gallon pool I guess.

This one says it’s rated for 15,000 gallons. I can’t believe this is all that would be needed. I guess it’s maybe possible that two of these could cut the mustard. BLUE WORKS Saltwater Generator Chlorinator BLH20 up to 15K Gallon Pool | 2-Year USA Warranty | Cell Plates provided by American Company(Clear) https://a.co/dAl6FEy

2 year warranty seems weak, but at least there’s a warranty.


Edit: I see a 25,000 gallon version of this for about $10xx. And this 40,000 gallon (plenty big for me, right?) is about $1300. CircuPool Universal40 Saltwater Chlorinator - Complete System with 40k-Gallon Max Cell - Compatible with existing Systems. 2022 Model with 2.0 lb. Output, USA Made Titanium Cell & 4 Year Warranty https://a.co/6Q7cze1

4 year warranty is obviously much better.
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Plan for Fall Draining of Painted Bromine Pool

Postby mknmike » Fri 23 Sep, 2022 13:24

A friend of mine suggested Hayward. He’s had both Pentair and Hayward, as they are some of the big names. He said he had a Hayward at his old house but has Pentair with his new house with his brand new luxury pool.

He claimed 1.5x should be fine, but I don’t know. He also suggested my pool is over 16,000 gallons, not 13,000 if it’s ~15.5x28’ and 3-7 feet deep.

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